inexpensive e-bike for 6 miles commute

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

Inexpensive electric bikes are just that, cheap. 12 miles a day turns into 60 miles a week which turns into over 240 miles a months. You might have an electrical system that will hold up or a bike that might hold up but you won't have both. The build quality of these inexpensive ebikes is usually sacrificed in the selection of the bicycle itself. Single walled rims, standard gauge spokes, basic headsets, hubs and bottom brackets ect.

To me, ebiking is 3 F's - Further, Faster, Fun. The first two F's require a basic bicycle build quality that will handle the work load or you won't be experiencing the third F for long. If you are a competent cycle mechanic, your life will be easier as you will be able to mend the bent wheels, rebuild the bearings, repair the flat tyres ect.

I recently helped out a fellow ebiker with an entry level ebike. He bought to go to work for just under £700. Two months later he has already spent £100 in repairs and maintenance including having the motor replaced (under warranty). He has been without his bike for its intended purpose for 6 working days during which he bused adding to the cost and inconvience. But I digress as you see my point. You get what you pay for.

RobF · Feb 22, 2014

I'm with Emo on this one, commuting is hard on a bike and cheap ebikes are not up to it.

Bike warranties - especially warranties on cheap bikes - are generally poor, so you may find yourself on your own.

Upping the budget at the front end could save you money in the long run.

Deleted member 4366 · Feb 22, 2014

Emo Rider said:
You might have an electrical system that will hold up or a bike that might hold up but you won't have both. The build quality of these inexpensive ebikes is usually sacrificed in the selection of the bicycle itself. Single walled rims, standard gauge spokes, basic headsets, hubs and bottom brackets ect.

I don't know where you got that from, Emo, but it's simply not true. Woosh Bikes are among the cheapest. Type "Woosh bike problem" into Google, and see if you can find any, then do the same with any expensive brand that's been around for a few years like Woosh, and see what you get.

Can you name a cheap bike that uses single-walled rims? I can't (off the top of my head). What's standard gauge spokes? Surely standard is what you want? Nearly all cheap electric bikes use 13g spokes, which are thicker than what you get on a non-electric bikes, and some use 12g. The only thing where I agree with your are the bottom brackets. some still use non-cartridge types. They sometimes give problems, but not enough to stop you riding. At the first indication of trouble, a sensible owner would upgrade to a cartridge one for about £10, and that'll be it sorted, Answer this question: Which one will wear out first, the BB on the cheap bike or the chain on the Bosch bike, and which will be the most expensive to repair?

I'm not saying that cheap electric bikes will be faultless, but if things do go wrong, they're normally pretty simple and cheap to fix. All the electric parts are readily and cheaply available from a a large number of suppliers, and most of the cycle parts can be got from your local car-boot sale for next to nothing.

I like high specification electric bikes, and I also like cheap Chinese ones. It means that there's something for everyone. They all do the job nicely most of the time.

trex · Feb 22, 2014

(Post crossed with d8veh)

Emo Rider said:
Inexpensive electric bikes are just that, cheap. 12 miles a day turns into 60 miles a week which turns into over 240 miles a months. You might have an electrical system that will hold up or a bike that might hold up but you won't have both. The build quality of these inexpensive ebikes is usually sacrificed in the selection of the bicycle itself. Single walled rims, standard gauge spokes, basic headsets, hubs and bottom brackets ect.

To me, ebiking is 3 F's - Further, Faster, Fun. The first two F's require a basic bicycle build quality that will handle the work load or you won't be experiencing the third F for long. If you are a competent cycle mechanic, your life will be easier as you will be able to mend the bent wheels, rebuild the bearings, repair the flat tyres ect.

I recently helped out a fellow ebiker with an entry level ebike. He bought to go to work for just under £700. Two months later he has already spent £100 in repairs and maintenance including having the motor replaced (under warranty). He has been without his bike for its intended purpose for 6 working days during which he bused adding to the cost and inconvience. But I digress as you see my point. You get what you pay for.

I disagree.

The running cost of is an important consideration when considering a bike for commuting. Simple truths:
1. the resale value of a commuting bike is very low. You have to be prepared to write off your investment if you sell. Therefore, have a realistic plan: how long you intend to keep the bike, how many miles you want to ride before getting a new one, if you ride in bad weather etc.
2. Service parts cost very little in the cost equation.
3. expensive bikes are expensive to maintain, in parts and labour. Similarly, while it costs you nothing to derestrict a Chinese LCD, you pay £100 for a Bosch dongle.
In commuting bikes, the theory that 'you get what you pay for' is a lazy theory. Bikes need looking after, if you ride the bike until it dies before checking it out, then a Bosch bike will outlast a Chinese one but if you check your bike once a week, then a Chinese bike will easily save you £1000 on the life of a commuting bike.

RobF · Feb 22, 2014

So that's two experienced ebikers for cheap bikes and two against.

Does this mean about half of cheap ebikes sold are reasonably reliable and half give bother?

Of course not, but it could still be about right.

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

d8veh said:
I don't know where you got that from, Emo, but it's simply not true. Woosh Bikes are among the cheapest. Type "Woosh bike problem" into Google, and see if you can find any, then do the same with any expensive brand that's been around for a few years like Woosh, and see what you get.

Can you name a cheap bike that uses single-walled rims? I can't (off the top of my head). What's standard gauge spokes? Surely standard is what you want? Nearly all cheap electric bikes use 13g spokes, which are thicker than what you get on a non-electric bikes, and some use 12g. The only thing where I agree with your are the bottom brackets. some still use non-cartridge types. They sometimes give problems, but not enough to stop you riding. At the first indication of trouble, a sensible owner would upgrade to a cartridge one for about £10, and that'll be it sorted, Answer this question: Which one will wear out first, the BB on the cheap bike or the chain on the Bosch bike, and which will be the most expensive to repair?

I'm not saying that cheap electric bikes will be faultless, but if things do go wrong, they're normally pretty simple and cheap to fix. All the electric parts are readily and cheaply available from a a large number of suppliers, and most of the cycle parts can be got from your local car-boot sale for next to nothing.

I like high specification electric bikes, and I also like cheap Chinese ones. It means that there's something for everyone. They all do the job nicely most of the time.

Sorry but I have never seen a Woosh bike and if it meets the needs of the original poster, feel free to reccomend it. Do not disparage my reply because I am relating personal experience and observation. The suppier of the bike I mentioned in my comment advertises on this site. The base bike used for the kit application sells as a non electric at £170. Its basic spec is nothing I would even attempt to ride 12 miles a day electric or non. It has standard bike spokes and a single walled rim on the back wheel. With roads conditions as they are is bound to fail sooner than later if ridden as Marcin's daily commute bike. Yes, the front wheel, with motor, had heavier gauge spokes as you would expect. However, as I mention, failed. Everything else about this bike was basic quality and not, As I replied, up to purpose for the original poster in my opinion.

You may have access to cheap replacement parts and the ability to fit them yourself as I described in my reply but Marcin may not. A BB cartridge replacement in most shops is £30 and up. If you want to spend time hunting down parts in car boots while taking the car or bus till you do find them thats great. Most people want to ride trouble free to and from work everyday.

Marcin, go check out the Woosh. It may just be what you want and it may hold up to daily commute useage. Nothing in the £700 price range, that I have seen or dealt with, suited the original poster's use.

trex · Feb 22, 2014

Emo Rider said:
Marcin, go check out the Woosh. It may just be what you want and it may hold up to daily commute useage. Nothing in the £700 price range, that I have seen or dealt with, suited the original poster's use.

The Woosh Sirocco 2 with 36V 15AH (£699) fits Marcin's budget:
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/electric-bikes/sirocco2x/

Kudoscycles · Feb 22, 2014

Marvin,we built a batch of bikes for one of our dealers that was specifically intended to be an entry level bike...the bike is the Vita Uno-26,priced £695.00 incl vat.
Kudos used their experience to use the best of the standard available components,the bike turned out very well and is selling very well.
You can view the bike on the London Electric Bike website....www.londonelectricbike.com
The biggest overhead of running an e-bike is the replacement battery cost,the Vita costs &198.00 include vat.,
Hope that helps.
KudosDave

Kudoscycles · Feb 22, 2014

Trex,I am sure you realised that the BPM motor is made by Suzhou Bafang,very Chinese. Also the latest Suntour forks that we use on all our performance bikes are very good quality and performance.
What you get with the euro bikes such as KTM is style,the whole design of the bike feels integrated whereas the Chinese tend to be a collation of components. One of the objects of my April Chinese trip is to try to refine the style of the integration of the parts but this is difficult with the relative low volumes in the UK
KudosDave

trex · Feb 22, 2014

RobF said:
So that's two experienced ebikers for cheap bikes and two against.

Does this mean about half of cheap ebikes sold are reasonably reliable and half give bother?

Of course not, but it could still be about right.

it depends on the distribution channels. Bikes sold through the shops are prepped by the shop to high standard, bikes sold through mail order are prepped by the customers, standard varies.
A £700 bike sold by mail order (like the Woosh Sirocco 2 above), if sold in the shop, would be priced at £900-£950. I guess if you are experienced, you buy mail order and look after the bike yourself. If not, you pay the shop for that.
Perhaps it's still cheaper for inexperienced customers to buy mail order and pay the shop for routine mechanical maintenance.

Deleted member 4366 · Feb 22, 2014

Emo, are you condemning all cheap bikes because one that you know about had a problem with a motor? If so, we could condemn all Bosch bikes and similar ones because a bloke I know broke his chain and had to push it 10 miles home, or the one who's Nuvinci gearbox went into neutral, so he had to push it home. Most people don't get problems whichever bike they have. Some people seem to be unlucky. I know people that commute 20 miles a day on bikes that cost £15 from Facebook adds. they do virtually no maintenance, and don't seem to get any problems. Go down to your local station and see what bikes are parked up there. A bike that cost over £100 is probably an exception. You'll see them covered in mud and salt, but still being used every day, and many of them more than 10 years old. It's a total fallacy that cheap bikes don't last.

Cyclezee · Feb 22, 2014

I'm not saying that eZee bikes are cheap or expensive for that matter, these things are all relative.
But when it come to longevity, they stand up well.
I had an example of this only yesterday, when a young lady called me about an eZee Sprint that belongs to her parents, she had been using the bike herself and managed to break the throttle.
The bike in question is 8 years old, still has the original battery and in that time it has been faultless.......until the throttle breakage.

I am sure that the bike has been well cared for which is a major factor with any bike electric or not.

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

d8veh said:
Emo, are you condemning all cheap bikes because one that you know about had a problem with a motor? If so, we could condemn all Bosch bikes and similar ones because a bloke I know broke his chain and had to push it 10 miles home, or the one who's Nuvinci gearbox went into neutral, so he had to push it home. Most people don't get problems whichever bike they have. Some people seem to be unlucky. I know people that commute 20 miles a day on bikes that cost £15 from Facebook adds. they do virtually no maintenance, and don't seem to get any problems. Go down to your local station and see what bikes are parked up there. A bike that cost over £100 is probably an exception. You'll see them covered in mud and salt, but still being used every day, and many of them more than 10 years old. It's a total fallacy that cheap bikes don't last.

Well it appears that I must clarify my thoughts and words for D8veh once again. The particual bike, which I dealt with most recently, I would not reccomend for Marcin's use. Having said that, it was not a bad bike for the money. The company in question handled the replacement very well the the new wheel and motor arriving the next day after being contacted about the problem.

I may be mistaken but I did say the Woosh could be the right bike for the price. I certainly did not comdemn it. Saying that I have not seen an ebike for £700 to use as a daily commuter of that distance (12 miles and I do 14 miles a day) does not condemn all £700 pound ebikes. I'm just waiting to see that will do the job for price.

I have been working on bicycles all my life and on ebikes in the year and a half. I have seen all kinds of ebikes of varrying levels of quality and states of repair. Some cheap bikes are worth the money others are simply crap as you must well know.

Finally, how in the world did this thread come include £15, non electric facebook specials. I thought we were discussing new £700 ebikes for handling a daily 12 mile commute. I never once said that cheap bikes do not last. I did say that new inexpensive bikes will generally require more maintenance and repair. As for £100 used bikes at the station performing well; a lot of them were quite expensive when new. To look at them now, being banged around and used for commuting for 10 years or more, they certainly don't look expensive now. I know my bikes. I look at them with a trained eye. I know that the ancient beat up Claud Butler is still 10 times the bike the six month old Halfords Trax in the same rack is.

Finally to adress "the fallacy that cheap bikes don't last." You can keep anything going if you have the means to repair it. And yes, even expensive bikes can have their problems. I believe that most consumers in this world enjoy better results with their purchases when they pay more for quality. Yes there are bargans to be had and some cheaper products do out perform more expensive products but this is not the norm.

I would like very much to stick to finding a bike for Marcin, not defending my opinions from someone who does not know me or my level of experience and seems bent on putting his words into mine.

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

Marcin said:
Thanks for all the replies. I'm in the camp that prefers cheap bikes. I bought my current one more then 2 years ago for £70., It's entry level bike from 10 years ago. 2-3 times a week I cycle to work (12 miles both ways) and it's OK. Once a year I change chain and brake pads, but I'd do this also with any bikes. I had to replace shifters after two years, but it's not a big cost, less than £10.

The only expensive part I got are Marathon Plus tires. It's easy to get a puncture on my way to work and most of bikes parked next to my office have these tires. I'm also going to change tires in electric bike, I'd do this even in more expensive ones.

I'm looking for a bicycle with mudguards and rack already fitted, more upright riding position than in mountain bikes, and preferably step-over frame (my wife will want to use it from time to time), but these are not deal-breakers.[/quote

You're welcome. I can see that you are the type of cyclist that is hands on and that a cheaper ebike may be for you. Sorry that I have not seen the two examples you quoted. If you have narrowed it down to these two models I suggest test rides and questions as to have well the warranty is backed up. Look for double walled wheels, sealed BB's, cartridge headset bearing, heavy gauge spokes in both wheels ect. Good luck and let us know what you have decided on.
Yor

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

Marcin said:
Thanks for all the replies. I'm in the camp that prefers cheap bikes. I bought my current one more then 2 years ago for £70., It's entry level bike from 10 years ago. 2-3 times a week I cycle to work (12 miles both ways) and it's OK. Once a year I change chain and brake pads, but I'd do this also with any bikes. I had to replace shifters after two years, but it's not a big cost, less than £10.

The only expensive part I got are Marathon Plus tires. It's easy to get a puncture on my way to work and most of bikes parked next to my office have these tires. I'm also going to change tires in electric bike, I'd do this even in more expensive ones.

I'm looking for a bicycle with mudguards and rack already fitted, more upright riding position than in mountain bikes, and preferably step-over frame (my wife will want to use it from time to time), but these are not deal-breakers.

Sorry as I do not know what happened to my reply to your comment. As I wanted to say, you're welcome. Sorry I was not familiar with the two examples you quoted. I can see now that you are a hands on biker and a cheaper bike may be for you. I suggest getting test rides on both and looking into how well warranty claims are handled. Look for the obvious use of quality components and make your pick from there. Good luck and let us know what you decide on.

Geebee · Feb 22, 2014

Marcin said:
Thanks for all the replies. I'm in the camp that prefers cheap bikes. I bought my current one more then 2 years ago for £70., It's entry level bike from 10 years ago. 2-3 times a week I cycle to work (12 miles both ways) and it's OK. Once a year I change chain and brake pads, but I'd do this also with any bikes. I had to replace shifters after two years, but it's not a big cost, less than £10.

The only expensive part I got are Marathon Plus tires. It's easy to get a puncture on my way to work and most of bikes parked next to my office have these tires. I'm also going to change tires in electric bike, I'd do this even in more expensive ones.

I'm looking for a bicycle with mudguards and rack already fitted, more upright riding position than in mountain bikes, and preferably step-over frame (my wife will want to use it from time to time), but these are not deal-breakers.

Looks like Woosh have bikes with all the stated feature and still low priced

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/

Emo Rider · Feb 22, 2014

Marcin said:
It looks nice. I think 10Ah battery would be enough so it's only £599.
But are there reasons to pick it over other ones?
http://www.therange.co.uk/silent-force-electric-bike/-/search-engine-friendly-text/fcp-product/90325
http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/PowaCycle/PowaCycle_Prague_Electric_Bike.aspx
http://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/Item/Brands/Cyclotricity/Cyclotricity_Sahara_Electric_Bike.aspx

A bigger battery translates to greater range and less charging which equals out to longer battery life.

inexpensive e-bike for 6 miles commute

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