Ideas please.

[Bramstoker]

Maybe its a niche that i cant fill, and i`m a bit drowned in information but what i want is to convert my fat bike but with certain requirements. 1x10 Gears and torque sensing (not worried about throttle, hub or mid drive). 100mm BB and 190mm dropouts.
Tongshen, can be had in 100mm BB, has torque sensing, but seems to have real problems with shaft breakages. (fat git and heavy bike)
Bafang, No torque sensing
Hub motor, most seem to be 7 speed, and i haven`t seen and with a combination of 10 spd and the capability for torque sensing
X1 PRO GEN2, Need to sell a kidney, not keen on the 2 chain idea.
So am out of luck or have i missed something ? Ideas and link appreciated.

 

[Woosh]

not easy to find a torque sensor for 100mm bottom bracket.
I think you may have to go for a cadence sensor.

 

[vfr400]

First question: Why do you want torque sensing?

 

[Bramstoker]

First question: Why do you want torque sensing?

More natural feel (A bit of a contentious answer i know)
Want to loose weight cycling, but dodgy knee and a leg injury, so i want a "helping hand" rather than being able to "soft pedal" my way around .
Dont want any extra wiring or guff (no throttle or brake or gear sensors. May not be a issue.)
My own totally irrational feelings that i want a bike not a electric moped. Sad and contentious but just what i feel.

 

[Woosh]

dodgy knee and a leg injury

what is the donor bike?

 

[vfr400]

First question: Why do you want torque sensing?

More natural feel (A bit of a contentious answer i know)
Want to loose weight cycling, but dodgy knee and a leg injury, so i want a "helping hand" rather than being able to "soft pedal" my way around .
Dont want any extra wiring or guff (no throttle or brake or gear sensors. May not be a issue.)
My own totally irrational feelings that i want a bike not a electric moped. Sad and contentious but just what i feel.

With a cadence sensor and a current control system, you have the choice about how hard you pedal at any time. With a torque sensing system, you have less choice about how hard you pedal.

You need to take a step back and think more logically about in what circumstances you need power and how you're going to get the amount you want or need in those circumstances. If you get it wrong, you'll get a much better idea about what feels natural.

Much of what's said about different systems is from people that have a very limited frame of reference.

 

[Bramstoker]

Been upgraded 10 speed and better brakes plus other stuff.

 

[Woosh]

My G06 kit may not suit you but look it up for comparison:
https://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-215-fatkit12ah/bafang-g06-g060500dc-48v-rear-hub-kit-with-48v-12ah-battery

it's in stock.

 

[Bramstoker]

With a cadence sensor and a current control system, you have the choice about how hard you pedal at any time. With a torque sensing system, you have less choice about how hard you pedal.

But surely cadence is about speed of crank, if im struggling up hill crank speed and my speed will be low, if im on the flat in top my crank speed will be low but my speed will be high, one ill need help with the other i wont, unless i use the assistance as another gear adjusting the opposite way to my gear 1st = top assist 10th no assist. Can soft pedaling be adjusted out with your method?
I was under the impression that a torque system was all about how hard you pedaled, with assistance and gears helping as needed or not. ie a good workout still but with a helping shove should it be needed.

 

[vfr400]

Crank speed has no bearing on power when you have a cadence sensor system.

With current control, you get 6 levels of help from zero to maximum. You pedal with whatever effort you want, which can be anything from air pedalling to maximum that you can do. You have the choice. Turning up the power makes you go faster and turning it down makes you go slower. Some of us use a throttle in conjunction, which you rarely get on a torque sensor system. Typically, you might be pedalling along on level 1, 2 or 3, depending on how fast you want to go, then, when you need a burst of speed, like to get onto a roundabout and round it quickly, you use the throttle to jump to full power rather than press the up button two or three times. It's the same with short hills, fast starts, etc.

Throttles are absolutely legal despite what people say. You only have to set it to non-zero start to be fully compliant. Nobody is checking, nor do they care anyway, so you could set it to zero start and get the benefit of independent help for hill-starts and any time you're hampered.

 

[sjpt]

Crank speed has no bearing on power when you have a cadence sensor system.

Just to underline that. It is very confusing that it is called cadence sensor, It does not depend on cadence, it is just on (yes you are pedaling) or off (no you aren't)

 

[vfr400]

On the crappy cadence systems you get full power as soon as you pedal, which is the limited experience of many commentators. Basically, as said above, it works like an on/off switch, and means that if you have such a speed control system, you don't have control of the power at low speed, but when you have a current control cadence system, you can set the power low so that the motor's power is insignificant compared with your own, which gives you much more control.

 

[Bramstoker]

Why cant you have current control and torque? Is it not better to say at level 1 take my leg input power and add 10% to it or at level 6 take my leg power and add 100% to it or anywhere in between. If cadence is on/off then torque must add finesse to the equasion ?

 

[peter.c]

Have both a tdz 48v and bbshd in fat bikes at the moment, and the tdz is not right choice purely on the extra cost for a fat bike[ almost double over the 68mm version and the 3 week delivery] unless you just must have the torque sensor the £100 you save is not worth it. Plus its a pig to fit as the 100mm version struggles to clear the chain stays on the non drive side and if you need a bb spacer the shaft is not long enough ps the bbshd has double the torque and fitted out of the box

 

[Woosh]

it's confusing until you test ride an e-bike fitted with a cadence sensor.
Good controllers are programmed to suit the average e-bike users, so that they don't have to constantly fiddle with the assist level setting on the LCD. I usually leave the assist level on 1 if there is no headwind and increase it if there is.
On some kits, you can reprogram the 'power set', individual assist levels as a percentage of maximum power, on the LCD with eg 50%, 65%, 80%, 90% and 100% to suit yourself.
You should read up the Bafang BBS01 programming fr example to see how this works.
Bafang initially programmed it with just 3 levels.
The system works very well in practice.

 

[MikelBikel]

I appreciate the difficulty of squeezing wheel, chainstay and chainwheel into the same space.
Esp on a fat bike, (nice bike btw, shiny motor, want one now, no, no more bikes Mikel)!
Wondered why designers dont all just take the high, up & over chainstay approach?
Could Cadence power assist be ramped up appropriately, rather than bang, all at once ?
Just my 2cents worth

 

[Bramstoker]

Are there any hub motors that take a 10 speed cassette and will take a hub torque sensor should i still want to go that route?

 

[Woosh]

Are there any hub motors that take a 10 speed cassette

My hub kits (XF08C, DWG22C, 85SX, G06).
But you have a fat bike, only the G06 will go on a fat bike because of the 175mm dropout.

 

[vfr400]

Are there any hub motors that take a 10 speed cassette and will take a hub torque sensor should i still want to go that route?

You can use a torque sensor with any hub-motor. I don't know of any hub-motors that have a torque sensor in them.

The best thing about hub-motors is that you don't need to use a torque sensor with them.

 

[Bramstoker]

My hub kits (XF08C, DWG22C, 85SX, G06).
But you have a fat bike, only the G06 will go on a fat bike because of the 175mm dropout.

Drop out on mine is 195mm +/- 5mm is that a problem for the G06?