Hydraulic disc brakes with ebike cutout

[scbk]

Needed to get a new set of decent hydraulic disc brakes for one of the bikes.

Found you can get genuine Shimano MT200 on aliexpress for about £35 or whatever. Make sure you order the front/rear left/right the way round you want it, and right length of hoses.

BR BL MT200 Bicycle Brake MTB Brake Hydraulic Disc Brake 750/800/1350/1450/1500mm Mountain Clamp Brakes upgraded MT315 - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

And then YosePower are selling brake sensors for the MT200 for £16, they just clip in to place behind the lever, and can even be adjusted

Brake Sensor only for Shimano MT200 Brake

1. Warm Tips* Shipping from China takes 20-30 working days.* For the front and rear brakes. * Very simple to install, very easy to use.* Will allow you to cut off the electric system on your electric vehicle.2. Copyright StatementAll the contents including words, pictures, and videos are...

www.yosepower.co.uk

(you might need to cut the plugs off and solder your own on)


All seems to work well so far! The sensors are fitted in these pics, you can barely see them

 

[AndyBike]

Arent these brake sensor things only applicable if you have a throttle fitted ?

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Arent these brake sensor things only applicable if you have a throttle fitted ?

They are also quite useful changing down gears when you come to a junction , where you want to pedal to change gears but don't want the motor to kick in

 

[sjpt]

Arent these brake sensor things only applicable if you have a throttle fitted ?

Also for fine manoeuvres such as getting through awkward restrictions; you don't want the motor to kick in in when you make a small turn of the pedals.

 

[matthewslack]

They are an essential safety feature for all systems where there is any 'run on' when pedal rotation stops. They give certainty to the rider that the brakes will do what they expect. An off the shelf bike without them would be on thin ice in an accident investigation.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

They are an essential safety feature for all systems where there is any 'run on' when pedal rotation stops. They give certainty to the rider that the brakes will do what they expect. An off the shelf bike without them would be on thin ice in an accident investigation.

I thought very few off the shelf bikes nowadays had brake sensors

E.g

Cadence Sensor Continuing to Power

I've recently bought a whisper wayfarer H9 and I took it for ride and noticed that the bike would continue to provide power even after stopping pedaling. Sometimes it would be for a split second and sometimes it would be for a good few seconds I noticed this was really quite dangerous on roads...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[matthewslack]

I thought very few off the shelf bikes nowadays had brake sensors

E.g

Cadence Sensor Continuing to Power

I've recently bought a whisper wayfarer H9 and I took it for ride and noticed that the bike would continue to provide power even after stopping pedaling. Sometimes it would be for a split second and sometimes it would be for a good few seconds I noticed this was really quite dangerous on roads...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

There's probably a statement in a regulation somewhere, others may know. But applying common sense from first principles, in the event of an accident where an ebike is propelled out of a T junction in front of a vehicle with fatal consequences, the lack of brake sensors would be discussed at length.

Justification for the lack could include 'brakes are powerful enough to overcome the motor' or 'motor stops soon enough after pedalling stops'. Manufacturers must provide an adequately safe and fit for purpose product, and so must be able to justify their design decisions.

Your second link demonstrates the risk that lack of brake sensors poses.

In industries with formal safety management systems, 'defence in depth' is normal, i.e. never rely on a single safety defence. That can be seen in bikes in the requirement for two independent braking systems.

 

[Cadence]

I bought a set of Zoom HB-775E hydraulic brakes from Aliexpress. These come with cut-out sensors already fitted.

ZOOM HB-775E E-BIKE Hydraulic Disc Brake Set Electric Scooter Folding Mtb Bike Power Off ebrake - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

vi.aliexpress.com

The above is just a random link as I can't access my previous orders.
There are a bewildering amount of listings for these, with different length hoses for left or right front brake set-ups. They are also available with 2-pin or 3-pin cut-out plugs. I bought a set with longer hoses to be on the safe side and a separate fitting kit with oil, cutting and bleeding tools which were about a tenner.
Fitting was very easy and despite shortening the hoses to suit my frame they hardly needed any bleeding. They have been in use for 6 months now and are a huge improvement over my previous v-brakes.
One advantage of these over the Shimano brakes is that the clamp is a 2-bolt split type, so you can fit and remove the levers without having to pull the grips off.

 

[chris_n]

Never had the need (or want) of brake sensors on either of my torque sensored, mid motor e-bikes. Changing gears as you are slowing down doesn't require enough force on the pedals to activate power. Low speed maneuvering you might want to be aware of your power level but normally would be in such a low gear and turning pedals so slowly that not much power is going to be applied anyway.

 

[saneagle]

I thought very few off the shelf bikes nowadays had brake sensors

E.g

Cadence Sensor Continuing to Power

I've recently bought a whisper wayfarer H9 and I took it for ride and noticed that the bike would continue to provide power even after stopping pedaling. Sometimes it would be for a split second and sometimes it would be for a good few seconds I noticed this was really quite dangerous on roads...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Most Chinese bikes still have them. There's also a regulation that makes them mandatory on OEM bikes in some situations. The regulation specifies that they must be installed if the motor doesn't cut within 2 metres when you stop pedalling. That includes pedalling at 25km/hr, so 288mS in time.

 

[matthewslack]

Never had the need (or want) of brake sensors on either of my torque sensored, mid motor e-bikes. Changing gears as you are slowing down doesn't require enough force on the pedals to activate power. Low speed maneuvering you might want to be aware of your power level but normally would be in such a low gear and turning pedals so slowly that not much power is going to be applied anyway.

Same with my Shimano, and the short distances I have ridden Yamaha, Giant and Bosch motored mid-drives.

They all have very sophisticated power control algorithms, essential in the off road environment, and also much higher motor reduction ratio and lower motor mass, so much faster response.

Edit: in my E5000 there is a noticeable small rotation of the pedals before torque is applied, which probably operates an on/off switch or sensor, so giving almost instant cut-off of power when pedalling stops, not requiring any pedal rotation to achieve.

 

[Nealh]

One reason to fit a KT to hub bikes , run on is zero effect with the fast acting PAS stop.
I would though recommend one to be fitted if a speed switch device is used.

 

[AntonyC]

...The regulation specifies that they must be installed if the motor doesn't cut within 2 metres when you stop pedalling. That includes pedalling at 25km/hr, so 288mS in time.

Eh? "Assistance shall be cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling forward and the cut-off distance shall not exceed 2 m." EN 15194:2017, 4.2.13.1 b

 

[saneagle]

Eh? "Assistance shall be cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling forward and the cut-off distance shall not exceed 2 m." EN 15194:2017, 4.2.13.1 b

What's the question? You've just repeated what I wrote. That's without brake switches. It's 5m with them.

 

[AntonyC]

Well that's embarrassing it's only in the very next clause:
"If all braking devices (e.g. levers, back pedal) are equipped with cut-off switches, the cut off distance shall not exceed 5 m." EN 15194:2017, 4.2.13.1 c

Hadn't noticed 5m and a big improvement on 2m. I guess "all" must mean 5m cut off limit is for pedalling-stopped distance and not lever-stopped distance. It all helps on a recumbent with heel strike (when cornering).