Hung for a sheep or lamb.....

[Kudoscycles]

All you guys who are not worried about illegality might as well do the job properly. The S-class is for wimps...there is no degree of illegality,there is only legal or not legal so why not the Elmoto HR-1....
Max speed....35kph
Weight.....22kg
Range.....100kms
Battery.....36v x 9Ah,11.25 Ah,15.5 Ah
Motor.....650 watts
Price......euros 3520,£2500 approx.
What are you pussyfooting around on 350 watts,when 650 watts is available?????
The price is less than many S-class.
Or if you really want the power...what about the Elmoto HR2
Max speed...45kph
Weight.....47kg
Range....65kms
Battery.....48v x 31,5 Ah
Motor......1.7 or 3.0 kW
Price....about euros 4500.
Hung for a sheep or lamb.....perhaps someone could put some photos up,I think the HR-1 is a good looking bike.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

.....perhaps someone could put some photos up,I think the HR-1 is a good looking bike.
KudosDave

proper use for a DD motor.

http://www.elmoto.com/de/products/hr1-pedelec/

HR2:
http://www.elmoto.com/en/en-bikes/en-hr2-360-grad/

 

[flecc]

Of course it seems S class riders don't really want such power. Germany struggled against the EU for a quite a while before being able to get permission for the S class to have the permitted power rating to be upped from 250 watts to 500 watts.

But as things have turned out, there was little demand for 500 watts and few makers now offer one. Instead the S class has largely settled down as a de facto 350 watts one, with all makers offering that rating. It seems to be the magic number in assisted cycling.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

But an s-pedelec can do up to 45 kph so 35 with 650W is a bit on the light end. And only 36V?

 

[anotherkiwi]

But as things have turned out, there was little demand for 500 watts and few makers now offer one. Instead the S class has largely settled down as a de facto 350 watts one, with all makers offering that rating. It seems to be the magic number in assisted cycling.
.

Aren't they just being careful about factor 4?

 

[flecc]

But an s-pedelec can do up to 45 kph so 35 with 650W is a bit on the light end. And only 36V?

The S riders expect to input pedaling so they make up the difference. See my last post above, the S class market has settled for moderate power for a low weight and longer range advantage instead of brute power.

P.S. I dont think factor 4 is an influence in this, the trend was clear from the moment the power increase was announced, customers just didn't want the offered 500 watt bikes.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

But an s-pedelec can do up to 45 kph so 35 with 650W is a bit on the light end. And only 36V?

Ok,how about using the Bafang MM G32-1000. Crank drive
1kw power,1:22 reduction ratio and 160 Nm torque.
Once you make the decision to go illegal you might as well do the job properly.
If I built a batch would there be interest,obviously 'private land use only'?
Reading most of the postings on this forum there seems to be a lot of interest in illegals,I doubt it could be registered as a e-moped.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

There is no need to go that far a GSM at 18 A x 48 V already peaks at over 800 W. Or a 250 W X 25 A Norwegian BBS01 or even a reprogrammed to 18 A stock standard BBS01.

Then it all boils down to what do you want to use it for? Speed over short range = leisure use or range with extra oumpf for a few steep hills = commuting. Unrestricted top speed long range commuters are probably less at risk and more reasonable than the Saturday afternoon WOT bunch.

But long range commuters are the minority users...

 

[trex]

Ok,how about using the Bafang MM G32-1000. Crank drive
1kw power,1:22 reduction ratio and 160 Nm torque.
Once you make the decision to go illegal you might as well do the job properly.
If I built a batch would there be interest,obviously 'private land use only'?
Reading most of the postings on this forum there seems to be a lot of interest in illegals,I doubt it could be registered as a e-moped.
KudosDave

I think there is a demand for this kind of bikes, not so much to go fast but to pull heavy loads like the front loader cargo bikes, I reckon about 100-200 bikes a year.
Most of the posts in favour of illegal bikes on this forum are from people who wouldn't be interested in yours because they simply will not buy Chinese made bikes.

 

[soundwave]

 

[SRS]

Ok,how about using the Bafang MM G32-1000. Crank drive
1kw power,1:22 reduction ratio and 160 Nm torque.
Once you make the decision to go illegal you might as well do the job properly.
If I built a batch would there be interest,obviously 'private land use only'?
Reading most of the postings on this forum there seems to be a lot of interest in illegals,I doubt it could be registered as a e-moped.
KudosDave

Dave

I think you are missing the point regarding S Pedelecs. I like most I have spoken to wish for a light weight cycle, assisted to say 28mph with a reasonable amount of rider input. A 350w S version would do this nicely and make a very usable machine.

Any suggestion that one might as well go illegal properly and have a large motor is absurd. Why would you want to do that?

 

[flecc]

Dave

I think you are missing the point regarding S Pedelecs. I like most I have spoken to wish for a light weight cycle, assisted to say 28mph with a reasonable amount of rider input. A 350w S version would do this nicely and make a very usable machine.

Any suggestion that one might as well go illegal properly and have a large motor is absurd. Why would you want to do that?

I agree, and that's certainly been the case in Germany, the home of the S bike. But we sometimes seem to have another sort of user in here, those who buy 1000 watt or even 2000 watt machines of the sort that Frank at Xipi sold. That's more the user that Dave's suggestion would suit. I don't think that market is much of a size though.
.

 

[SRS]

I agree, and that's certainly been the case in Germany, the home of the S bike. But we sometimes seem to have another sort of user in here, those who buy 1000 watt or even 2000 watt machines of the sort that Frank at Xipi sold. That's more the user that Dave's suggestion would suit. I don't think that market is much of a size though.
.

Flecc

I'm embarrassed to say that my 1st electric cycle was a 1000w self build with throttle.

Shall not say where it came from but it was totally unsuitable for my needs and it didn't last past a couple of months.

My 250W Bosch powered KTM and Haibike are a million times better and far more suited to sensible daily usage.

 

[flecc]

I'm embarrassed to say that my 1st electric cycle was a 1000w self build with throttle.

I should be even more embarrassed. Having owned a legal Giant Lafree, the second e-bike I bought, though nominally legal, peaked at 1000 watts and assisted to 22 mph derestricted . And of course like everybody else, I derestricted it.

However, ultimately it was the least used, no longer owned and the current bike is entirely legal.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

And of course like everybody else, I derestricted it.
.

Range is my problem with a 10.4 A battery so after experimenting a bit my bike is limited to 25 kph (26 kph actually but the power cuts out at 25 kph). So I guess it is legal because within the 10% tolerance.

Of course it isn't really legal because it doesn't have the correct markings, it is just within the spirit of the law.

 

[Alan Quay]

I should be even more embarrassed. Having owned a legal Giant Lafree, the second e-bike I bought, though nominally legal, peaked at 1000 watts and assisted to 22 mph derestricted . And of course like everybody else, I derestricted it.

However, ultimately it was the least used, no longer owned and the current bike is entirely legal.
.

I'm not embarrassed to say that I have also dabbled in the illegal. 1200w peak, 24mph. Also my least used machine, but bloody good fun.

By contrast the machine I use most often is (roughly speaking, but probably not technically) legal. Top assist at about 17mph, not as much torque as a BPM.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I think there is a demand for this kind of bikes, not so much to go fast but to pull heavy loads like the front loader cargo bikes, I reckon about 100-200 bikes a year.
Most of the posts in favour of illegal bikes on this forum are from people who wouldn't be interested in yours because they simply will not buy Chinese made bikes.

Trex...I don't think the origin affects the market....Woosh sells because they are cheap....Kudos sells because they are vfm but also a local dealer sale...KTM /Haibike sells because of brand awareness. But the volume of sales is indirectly proportional to the cost....double the cost,halve the volume. We are Kudos/KTM/Haibike/Raleigh dealers....Kudos outsells all of them because that is what the UK wants,£1000 is the threshold point.
Most of the guys on this forum who want illegal bikes want the cheapest build for the max performance,more bang for your buck.
This forum is knowledgeable enough to know that most of the components come from China,sometimes the Germans screw them together better. Give it a couple of more years and we will see the Chinese building the best bikes just like the Japanese did to motorbikes.

KudosDave

 

[EddiePJ]

This is one brand of bike that needs plenty of power to make it a viable buying option. http://b4-bikes.nl/ It would somehow seem wrong putting a little motor in, along with no hand throttle.

Oddly, I really love the look of this range of bike, and would love to turn up on one at our local Wednesday evening classic bike night at the local pub. I certainly could never see me owning one, but just for an evening of entertainment, I reckon that it would take some beating.

I also follow B4 on Instagram, and I've yet to see a duff photo. Somehow the bike works.

 

[trex]

...
Most of the guys on this forum who want illegal bikes want the cheapest build for the max performance,more bang for your buck...

if they did, they would go get a 800W kit from bmsbattery or a BBS02 750W. We have instead numerous posts on promoting the ideas that 1) s-pedelec = pedelec + baddass dongle and 2) s-pedelec is sexy. They don't need it, just want to own it. Not cheap bang for buck.

 

[anotherkiwi]

My main destination is 33.7 km (21 miles) away.



At the moment I ride 14 km to a station and get on a train with the bike. I average 25 kph on that route so if I drop the train ride and cycle the full journey it should take 1:20. Last summer I did it in 1:45 , an average of 19.25 kph with red lights and slower sections on cycle paths.

If I could average 35 kph and do it in an hour I would be a happy bunny, staying off the cycle paths of course! For the moment the GSM kit on a 700C bike and restricted to 35 kph is my weapon of choice.