Hopper 24v Step-Through Beast

[bagss2]

Hi folks,

As per my 'introduction' post just now, I'm about to pull the trigger on a spares/repairs Hopper 24v folding step-through job. From some online research I think it was one of the few re-badged Avocet/Viking models sold cheap through Tesco a few years back.

Anyway, I understand it has a 24v 8.4ah 'Frog' battery. It comes with its original charger.

My concern is that the battery has been neglected and discharged to death... Is there a test I can ask the seller to do and report back, to ascertain the health of the battery?

Any help / pointers gratefully received.


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi folks,

As per my 'introduction' post just now, I'm about to pull the trigger on a spares/repairs Hopper 24v folding step-through job. From some online research I think it was one of the few re-badged Avocet/Viking models sold cheap through Tesco a few years back.

Anyway, I understand it has a 24v 8.4ah 'Frog' battery. It comes with its original charger.

My concern is that the battery has been neglected and discharged to death... Is there a test I can ask the seller to do and report back, to ascertain the health of the battery?

Any help / pointers gratefully received.


Cheers, Baggers.

Ask him what happens when the charger is attached (LED wise), and the timing therof (How long to charge to full), and what voltage can be measured on the battery after charging, and how many miles can he do on one charge.
Post the infos you get back here.
Andy

 

[bagss2]

Ask him what happens when the charger is attached (LED wise), and the timing therof (How long to charge to full), and what voltage can be measured on the battery after charging, and how many miles can he do on one charge.
Post the infos you get back here.
Andy

Hi Andy

Thank you for the super-quick reply.

The bike isn't currently 'running' as the bracket the frog battery clips to is broken and needs replacing (keys lost, lock unsuccessfully drilled and the bracket casing butchered beyond repair).

I think will be in to £40 to replace this full part, including keys. On this basis, the deal works for me.

However if I have to replace the battery too, I'd rather pass and look for another opportunity.

So, I will ask him to connect the charger and let me know re. LED lights and full-charge time.

Thank you again for your help.


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[Nealh]

Treat the buy as needing a new battery, most sellers haven't a clue about the battery and can you really trust them, they wan't shot of the bike otherwise they would keep it.
A new battery will be about £150 - £200.

 

[mike killay]

The real question is 'How old is the battery?'
By the sounds of it, it is probably more than 4-5 years and probably useless.
Personally, I would always price in the cost of a new battery before buying.
Also, 24 volt is nearly obsolete and 8.4 ah even at 36 volt really is out of date.
To get an idea, multiply the voltage by the amp hours to get watt hours.
That Frog at best is 195 wh.
The 36 volt batteries currently on new bikes start at 10 ah (360 wh) and commonly are now offered at 15 ah or more on new bikes.
ah =amp hours
wh = watt hours

 

[Andy-Mat]

Hi Andy

Thank you for the super-quick reply.

The bike isn't currently 'running' as the bracket the frog battery clips to is broken and needs replacing (keys lost, lock unsuccessfully drilled and the bracket casing butchered beyond repair).

I think will be in to £40 to replace this full part, including keys. On this basis, the deal works for me.

However if I have to replace the battery too, I'd rather pass and look for another opportunity.

So, I will ask him to connect the charger and let me know re. LED lights and full-charge time.

Thank you again for your help.


Cheers, Baggers.

I do agree with others here that the battery is probably shot, or has a high probability of being shot.
As those parts have been Butchered, are you happy that you can replace them? And at what cost? They may prove difficult to source, unless someone here knows 100% better?
IMHO, if you get given the bike for nothing, you are still going to have to layout a lot of cash to get it running.
A quality secondhand bike, with a good battery and a test period built in, may actually work out cheaper in the long run. If you go that way, try and get one for 36 Volts, its a good middle value that many bikes support.
Best of luck
Andy

 

[thirteen]

It might be worth having a read through my old thread on a similar bike, bought used and broken.

Viking E-Go 24 impulse purchase

I stopped by the local cycle shop at lunchtime today and spotted this ittle E-Go sat outside looking forlorn. I enquired about it and was told it had been taken in part exchange for a new e-bike. It was a 2013 model and was well used, a statement borne out by its condition. The pedal crank was...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[bagss2]

Treat the buy as needing a new battery, most sellers haven't a clue about the battery and can you really trust them, they wan't shot of the bike otherwise they would keep it.
A new battery will be about £150 - £200.

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, deep down I know you are right.

I can get an OE-spec (24v / 8.4ah) battery together with the £40 required part for £117.

Or, the £40 part and a 36v / 11ah battery with charger for £152.

The upgrade from c. 200 to c. 400 wh is surely worth the additional £35 investment - but would a 36v battery be compatiable with the existing motor / controller / wiring?

Cheers, Baggers.

 

[bagss2]

The real question is 'How old is the battery?'
By the sounds of it, it is probably more than 4-5 years and probably useless.
Personally, I would always price in the cost of a new battery before buying.
Also, 24 volt is nearly obsolete and 8.4 ah even at 36 volt really is out of date.
To get an idea, multiply the voltage by the amp hours to get watt hours.
That Frog at best is 195 wh.
The 36 volt batteries currently on new bikes start at 10 ah (360 wh) and commonly are now offered at 15 ah or more on new bikes.
ah =amp hours
wh = watt hours

Thank you for this very informative post.

I have to admit to not understanding the figures previously, beyond my broad assumption of 'bigger is better' / 'the more the merrier'.

Would I be right in understanding that the battery wh, when in conjunction with the wattage of the motor, determines the maximum time at 'full chat'?

e.g. 250wh would power a 250w motor for one hour?

But presumably then this would then become less in the real world, particularly when accomodating a portly rider and cycling up gradients?

As per my post above, doubling (or thereabouts) the wh can only be good, yes?

Cheers, Baggers.

 

[bagss2]

I do agree with others here that the battery is probably shot, or has a high probability of being shot.
As those parts have been Butchered, are you happy that you can replace them? And at what cost? They may prove difficult to source, unless someone here knows 100% better?
IMHO, if you get given the bike for nothing, you are still going to have to layout a lot of cash to get it running.
A quality secondhand bike, with a good battery and a test period built in, may actually work out cheaper in the long run. If you go that way, try and get one for 36 Volts, its a good middle value that many bikes support.
Best of luck
Andy

Thanks Andy.

From what I can see from just a few days' research, in terms of the s/hand market for electric bikes it's fairly polarised:

Sub-£400 = generally entry-level cr@p bikes that are more often than not basket-cases.

£400-1,000 = not a lot on offer (beyond my budget appetite to have a 'punt', in any case)

£1,000 upwards = where the good-stuff is and where the proper fun starts. Presumably this is where we all end up once bitten by the bug, whether by way of purchase or conversion?

For now I am happy to scrape the bottom of the barrel and see what can be achieved for under half the lowest number above (and if it's a complete failure then not too much harm done).


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[bagss2]

It might be worth having a read through my old thread on a similar bike, bought used and broken.

Viking E-Go 24 impulse purchase

I stopped by the local cycle shop at lunchtime today and spotted this ittle E-Go sat outside looking forlorn. I enquired about it and was told it had been taken in part exchange for a new e-bike. It was a 2013 model and was well used, a statement borne out by its condition. The pedal crank was...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Thank you. Yours was one of the threads that via Google very first led me to this site....

It didn't put me off going in the Hopper direction. Should it have?


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[sjpt]

e.g. 250wh would power a 250w motor for one hour?

It would mean that if the 250w really draw 250w.

Typically your 250w motor should be running much less than that on the level unless you use strong assist. Probably work for 2 to 3 hours. With the hills a bit less; on hard hills you will be taking a lot more than 250w.

To get a good idea how much it varies see https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/. Set it to 300w battery and take off 20%. You can see the effect of different terrain, roads, assist levels, tyres, etc etc. It's for Bosch but gives a good idea for any motor (except really inefficient direct drive ones).

 

[thirteen]

Thank you. Yours was one of the threads that via Google very first led me to this site....

It didn't put me off going in the Hopper direction. Should it have?


Cheers, Baggers.

No, certainly not.

Measured in smiles per £, the return on investment was immense.

I'm glad that my old thread has been of use.

 

[bagss2]

It would mean that if the 250w really draw 250w.

Typically your 250w motor should be running much less than that on the level unless you use strong assist. Probably work for 2 to 3 hours. With the hills a bit less; on hard hills you will be taking a lot more than 250w.

To get a good idea how much it varies see https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/range-assistant/. Set it to 300w battery and take off 20%. You can see the effect of different terrain, roads, assist levels, tyres, etc etc. It's for Bosch but gives a good idea for any motor (except really inefficient direct drive ones).

Thank you! Even more really helpful information.

Is a hub-style motor 'direct drive'?


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[sjpt]

Is a hub-style motor 'direct drive'?

No. Most hub drives have internal gears. There must be very few legal 250w hub drives without internal gears (I think, may be corrected there).

The direct drive are often nominally very powerful and cheap, you may see a 1000w one on ebay for not much over £100. They are illegal, inefficient, need a powerful battery, and bad at hill climbing. They are good at going illegally fast on the level.

Voilamart 250W 1000W Electric Bicycle E Bike Front Rear Wheel Conversion Kit 26" | eBay

Voilamart says (Only for Twist Throttle). 36V250WR A Rear 250W / 36V 16 mph 15 N.M. 48V1000WR C Rear 1000W / 48V 28 mph 45 N.M. 48V1000WRC E Rear 1000W / 48V 28 mph 45 N.M. (Only for Pedal Assist System,"PAS").

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[bagss2]

No. Most hub drives have internal gears. There must be very few legal 250w hub drives without internal gears (I think, may be corrected there).

The direct drive are often nominally very powerful and cheap, you may see a 1000w one on ebay for not much over £100. They are illegal, inefficient, need a powerful battery, and bad at hill climbing. They are good at going illegally fast on the level.

Voilamart 250W 1000W Electric Bicycle E Bike Front Rear Wheel Conversion Kit 26" | eBay

Voilamart says (Only for Twist Throttle). 36V250WR A Rear 250W / 36V 16 mph 15 N.M. 48V1000WR C Rear 1000W / 48V 28 mph 45 N.M. 48V1000WRC E Rear 1000W / 48V 28 mph 45 N.M. (Only for Pedal Assist System,"PAS").

www.ebay.co.uk

Thanks for this clarification.

Presumably any 250w motor is legal in as much as it won't have enough guts to get beyond 15mph on the flat (especially with a portly pilot)?


Cheers, Baggers.

 

[mike killay]

Thanks for this clarification.

Presumably any 250w motor is legal in as much as it won't have enough guts to get beyond 15mph on the flat (especially with a portly pilot)?


Cheers, Baggers.

Forget any analogy with a petrol engine.
The legal bikes are electronically limited one way or another to 15 mph and if fitted with various 'tweaks' will go faster.
The 250 watt is a nominal figure, it means that an engineer certifies that the motor will run for 30 minutes non stop at 250 watt without overheating, it is not an upper limit which is set by the controller. Most bikes will develop more than 250 watts for a short time but not continuously.

 

[bagss2]

Forget any analogy with a petrol engine.
The legal bikes are electronically limited one way or another to 15 mph and if fitted with various 'tweaks' will go faster.
The 250 watt is a nominal figure, it means that an engineer certifies that the motor will run for 30 minutes non stop at 250 watt without overheating, it is not an upper limit which is set by the controller. Most bikes will develop more than 250 watts for a short time but not continuously.

Hi Mike and thanks for this explanation.

I guess I will need to get the bike bought & landed, then see exactly what I have to work with, establish options and go from there...


Cheers, Baggers.