Hire in London - Failure?

[trex]

Trex - would you walk into the den, asking for 250'000 for 15%?

easy.

The business does not need to have leases or bikes or staff.
Each member shop uploads their own listings like they'd do with ebay.

value of the business = membership * £100.

You need 166,000 members to reach that valuation.

But by then, the website would generate more than £1M a year in profit from subscriptions and advertising.

 

[jonathan75]

In France recently a bike shop owner specialising in ebikes, and increasing his rental fleet, told me about a German businessman, who as of this moment has a fleet of several thousand ebike hire bikes, having started from just a few, now hired out of hotels and the like. I think it'd be worth trying to find out who he is in order to have a look at what his business model is.

Incidentally the Bosch removable cycle computer unit thingy has apparently been a gamechanger for a hire business because it immediately diagnoses faults. Previously a huge amount of time was spent testing for faults after bikes failed on customers.

 

[trex]

I don't know if such a scheme would work here.
These units are so easily detachable and go walking or simply vandalised.
Secondly, the maintenance cost if centralised could get out of hand due to organisational costs. Apparently the Boris bikes cost £2,000 a year to maintain.

 

[flecc]

I don't know if such a scheme would work here.
These units are so easily detachable and go walking or simply vandalised.
Secondly, the maintenance cost if centralised could get out of hand due to organisational costs. Apparently the Boris bikes cost £2,000 a year to maintain.

And the London Hire Bike scheme, which despite a big business subsidy, costs a small fortune in taxpayer subsidies each year. Just like the Paris Velib hire bike scheme which collapsed within two years and has had to be rescued with huge annual subsidies.

Bike hire schemes don't ever break even, most lose prodigious sums, and all those claiming their scheme pays are hiding the truth. Bikes by their nature are inherently unsuited to casual use by those not having to pay their true costs.
.

 

[trex]

it goes to show that bikes can't replace or relieve public transport in our congested cities. The only profitable bike hires seem to be the ones catering for tourists.

 

[flecc]

it goes to show that bikes can't replace or relieve public transport in our congested cities. The only profitable bike hires seem to be the ones catering for tourists.

There's another reason why they can't, weather. The potential bike users don't have wet weather cycling gear so turn to public transport anyway in inclement weather.

Its the same conundrum as wind power generation, still having to have full cover by traditional means.
.

 

[trex]

is it illegal to hire out a friction drive for the Boris bikes?

 

[flecc]

is it illegal to hire out a friction drive for the Boris bikes?

If what is meant is a quick clip on device for someone to use randomly, yes in the sense that it's illegal to use. That's because the power won't cut when pedalling stops.
.

 

[trex]

I was thinking of a clip on thumb throttle to modulate the friction drive.

 

[flecc]

I was thinking of a clip on thumb throttle to modulate the friction drive.

I'd think on the same lines, but sadly the impending law won't allow that. Probably academic though, since the bike hire scheme would almost certainly bring in a condition barring friction drive use, given what such drives do to tyres.
.

 

[trex]

thank you flecc.
I hope the OP has found out by now some of the reasons why e-bike hire can only be profitable as an add-on service in such places like B&Bs.

 

[Rambo76]

From all written and brainstormed here in the last few days, I could definitely see a platform that provides opportunity for bike shops to rent out would do the job, mainly in London.

The platform would provide booking, payment, division into 3 groups with same pricing across the board and return to same spot, and use group purchasing power to negotiate insurance deal.

It would combine all ebike facilities available, starting in the bigger cities (London, Manchester etc) and eventually move across the pond - giving small store owners the booking & marketing power to draw renters from all over the world, all based on the same lease contract & terms with platform taking % fee per rental.

Platform, as Trex mentioned, needs no maintainance of locations & bikes etc. The only thing I would do is maybe have 1 main location (similar to Avis Prestige) that will carry the real top premium bikes in the trade, for a cash loaded Chinese family or a Sheikh on visit from Qatar...

Trex, you put me on steroids here

 

[Rambo76]

From all written and brainstormed here in the last few days, I could definitely see a platform that provides opportunity for bike shops to rent out would do the job, mainly in London.

The platform would provide booking, payment, division into 3 groups with same pricing across the board and return to same spot, and use group purchasing power to negotiate insurance deal.

It would combine all ebike facilities available, starting in the bigger cities (London, Manchester etc) and eventually move across the pond - giving small store owners the booking & marketing power to draw renters from all over the world, all based on the same lease contract & terms with platform taking % fee per rental.

Platform, as Trex mentioned, needs no maintainance of locations & bikes etc. The only thing I would do is maybe have 1 main location (similar to Avis Prestige) that will carry the real top premium bikes in the trade, for a cash loaded Chinese family or a Sheikh on visit from Qatar...

Trex, you put me on steroids here

 

[flecc]

I could definitely see a platform that provides opportunity for bike shops to rent out would do the job, mainly in London.

I think this is the only basis on which a hire scheme might just succeed, one where there is a strong face to face element at point of hire and return.
.

 

[Rambo76]

E

I think this is the only basis on which a hire scheme might just succeed, one where there is a strong face to face element at point of hire and return.
.

Exactly. A professional bike shop, face to face with a expert, different ball game.

Read Spanish press, this is main problem in Madrid: no one there to observe, teach and secure.

 

[trex]

From all written and brainstormed here in the last few days, I could definitely see a platform that provides opportunity for bike shops to rent out would do the job, mainly in London.

The platform would provide booking, payment, division into 3 groups with same pricing across the board and return to same spot, and use group purchasing power to negotiate insurance deal.

It would combine all ebike facilities available, starting in the bigger cities (London, Manchester etc) and eventually move across the pond - giving small store owners the booking & marketing power to draw renters from all over the world, all based on the same lease contract & terms with platform taking % fee per rental.

Platform, as Trex mentioned, needs no maintainance of locations & bikes etc. The only thing I would do is maybe have 1 main location (similar to Avis Prestige) that will carry the real top premium bikes in the trade, for a cash loaded Chinese family or a Sheikh on visit from Qatar...

Trex, you put me on steroids here

the development of a platform like this needs to follow a staged delivery approach. The first stage is to deliver a usable platform with all the essential functtionality and proven robustness. It has to be convincing enough to raise more capital, This stage requires at least £100,000 to cover basic programming cost. At this stage, success will depend how many bike shops wanting to sign up.
I reckon to bring the project to the point of cashflow positive, you'll need to raise additionally £300,0000 to cover additional programming and advertising cost.

 

[Rambo76]

the development of a platform like this needs to follow a staged delivery approach. The first stage is to deliver a usable platform with all the essential functtionality and proven robustness. It has to be convincing enough to raise more capital, This stage requires at least £100,000 to cover basic programming cost. At this stage, success will depend how many bike shops wanting to sign up.
I reckon to bring the project to the point of cashflow positive, you'll need to raise additionally £300,0000 to cover additional programming and advertising cost.

Honestly? Far and above what I had in mind, will check here comparable offers (am currently in a Tech haven country...) to see if these figures are indeed the ones to count on.

 

[Rambo76]

Honestly? Far and above what I had in mind, will check here comparable offers (am currently in a Tech haven country...) to see if these figures are indeed the ones to count on.

Just finished meeting on a morning coffee discussing the subject with a top tech guy. Trex, happy to say - sorry mate, you are far off! Things look much better, certainly for stage 1.

 

[Rambo76]

that's an exaggeration, James.
You use the word 'inexperienced' to make your argument ring true.
e-bikes, especially those with thumb throttle and sensored brakes, are much easier to control than push bikes. They should reduce accidents, not increase them.

James, I need to know:

- If I send you over a couple, "Mr. & Ms. Chang" for example, who booked a 3 day bike rental in London on a Platform (fully prepaid and 100% insured) - would you be ready & able to cater for them, out of stock (new, display, seconds)?

- How many classes would you assume, you would have? Basic, medium, premium etc.? And would you be able to reserve a certain number of bikes for that purpose?

- Assuming you would be ready to explore this, how much would you be ready to pay for a booking platform that does all the marketing, processes payments securely and of course pushes renters to you (per booking)?

 

[trex]

ebay and amazon fees are about 10%, holiday rental platforms charge between 10% to 20%.
Paypal charge between 2% to 3% on top.
Only dedicated web based platforms can deliver lower marketing cost for small operators.
Rambo, if you want to create a platform, keep in mind that if yours is successful, there will be a dozen copycats coming into the market within a year.