Hi! Looking for Fiido D21 alternative

guerney

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I found the Fiido D21 cumbersome to carry.
With the battery removed, it's quite easy for me to lift and carry my bike up and down stairs unfolded - handhold indicated in red. The Helios can be carried with right arm straight. Would some sort of shoulder strap make carrying your next Fiido easier?

56010
 

ovatsus

Pedelecer
Jan 17, 2023
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Do Fiido still make/offer the D21 in the UK? There're a few still left in Europe, but my thinking is it's been/being dropped in light of Fiido's repositioning... they've already dropped the D4s and D2s as they introduce Gravel, Carbon, and more new full-sized Fat-tyre models. The folding X model - with hydraulic brakes and torque sensor - has had its price cut significantly to fill that void where the D21 used to sit in the range. Similarly, the D11 has its price cut (and a cheaper/heavier but faster motor now fitted) to help fill the void left by discontinuing their hitherto cheaper/best-selling D4S.

Just speculation/rumour/chatter rather than verified fact... worth checking though before banking on buying another D21.

One member here had an X then had a D21 and swore the X's torque sensor was far superior to the D21; it's a branded part in the X and just a generic one in the D21 (he confirmed by taking them apart).
The X has 2 extra kgs, the D21 is already heavy as it is. The D21 is missing from the Fiido UK website, and it's out of stock in ElectroHeads and BicycleLand. On mybikescheme.co.uk it shows as pre-order, which is weird, and that site also feels a bit shady, and definitely don't want to get it on eBay. So I'm seriously considering the Ado Air 20, even though they're lying about the real weight of the bike and it's actually not 16kg, but 17.8kg, so same more or less same as the Fiido. I would actually love to get something like a Tenways CGO600, but they don't do S size or step-through, and it would be always on the way in my flat...
 

cyclebuddy

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Nov 2, 2016
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The X has 2 extra kgs, the D21 is already heavy as it is.
If the D21 does reappear, it too will likely be 1kg heavier with the new/more powerful motor as the D11 now has. I don't think it will though; the whole idea backfired badly by selling to those who otherwise would've bought an X.
I would actually love to get something like a Tenways CGO600, but they don't do S size or step-through, and it would be always on the way in my flat...
You could always fit quick release pedals and a quick release/turning headset so the handlebar twists to be parallel to the frame. Then if the bike does need to sit in your hallway at least it'd be hard against a wall.

The Fiido Gravel C22 comes in small frame and low-bar with branded Mivice torque sensor (better than the D21) - £1090. It weighs 17.5kg though, with derailleur gears (which is likely what's increased that weight 'cos otherwise it's not dis-similar to the Tenways). They do an optional range-extender battery too (£171) that fits to the frame... even with that option, it's still quite a bit cheaper than the Tenways.
 

ovatsus

Pedelecer
Jan 17, 2023
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Yeah the C22 looks nice as well and at a very good price, though the Tenways is just 15kg and has carbon belt, which is appealing at 1299.

"quick release/turning headset so the handlebar twists to be parallel to the frame"

What do you mean? I haven't seen anything like that
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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"quick release/turning headset so the handlebar twists to be parallel to the frame"

What do you mean? I haven't seen anything like that
I'm considering getting one (45 degrees, for a narrower folded profile) for my (still unassembled) Dahon Espresso project, but if I do, I won't be able to install a Redshift ShockStop... also this raises the handlebar an inch or so.




I'd find not easily being able to lift a Fiido up and down stairs profoundly irritating, so it's a good job I don't have a Fiido... but if I did, I might look into making a foldaway low bar grip; set a new low bar.

56022
 
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cyclebuddy

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What do you mean? I haven't seen anything like that
It's something @saneagle uses/mentions from time to time. It may work with a Tenways, but I'm not sure it'd work with a C21/C22 though because, thinking more about it, the actual colour LCD display is physically integrated into the riser element of the stem.

56024
 

saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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It's something @saneagle uses/mentions from time to time. It may work with a Tenways, but I'm not sure it'd work with a C21/C22 though because, thinking more about it, the actual colour LCD display is physically integrated into the riser element of the stem.

View attachment 56024
You can fold the handlebars flat on any bike by replacing the screws on the stem clamp with quick release ones. It only works on convention 1 1/8" stem clamps, not on folding bikes. It might work on 1" quill-type stems.
 

Nealh

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saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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Yeah the C22 looks nice as well and at a very good price, though the Tenways is just 15kg and has carbon belt, which is appealing at 1299.

"quick release/turning headset so the handlebar twists to be parallel to the frame"

What do you mean? I haven't seen anything like that
Zoom in to the back of the stem:
56033
 
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guerney

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Zoom in to the back of the stem:
View attachment 56033
The folding stem I mentioned in post #85 is for the older Espresso design frame with "free" fork "New old stock", which I could buy, but those levers could work with my present newer Espresso. Are those two levers on the same side? Do you have to loosen the top aswell, in order to turn the handbar sideways? You've been loosening and tightening those levers for awhile - have you noticed any wear of the threads?
 

saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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The folding stem I mentioned in post #85 is for the older Espresso design frame with "free" fork "New old stock", which I could buy, but those levers could work with my present newer Espresso. Are those two levers on the same side? Do you have to loosen the top aswell, in order to turn the handbar sideways? You've been loosening and tightening those levers for awhile - have you noticed any wear of the threads?
Different stems have the screws in different directions. Some only have one screw, some have two from the same side, and some two from different sides, like mine.

There's no need to loosent the cap screw. That shouldn't be tight anyway. After many operations of the twisting, the cap screw could become loose a bit, so worth checking from time to time, though I've never had to adjust mine.

I set my hamdlebars in line with the bike every time I park in a bike rack at the hospital or town centre. Not only does it stop the bike from becoming entangled with the others, but it's a good deterrent against theft.
 
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ovatsus

Pedelecer
Jan 17, 2023
37
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While waiting for either the Fiido D21 to come back, or to find a place to test ride the Ado Air 20, I'm renting the analogue motion one for £58 a month: https://blike.com/recycle/recjYVjivOJRa2xyQ

It's a cadence sensor, but it's doesn't feel as bad as others I tried, it's quick enough to get the power started at a traffic light, it's light and easy to pedal without power, doesn't look like an ebike so doesn't attract attention, and I actually ended up making the commute 5 minutes shorter than I did on the Fiido, the motor seems to have a bit more kick. Just a temporary solution but it's cheaper than renting Lime or Human Forest bikes. I have to take the battery out every time, but it's like a water bottle, and I can charge it at home or in the office without having to bring the bike up
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Finally! A ready made Bafang mid-drive 20" wheeled folding bike! At last, a bike manufacturer has realised the advantages of a mid-moror driving 20" wheels. Might be interesting, but not a serious suggestion, belt drive, torque sensored, expensive, and I don't know much about the Bafang M820 motor.

@Woosh and @Wisper Bikes should also blatantly copy me and make something like this IMHO. Fatsos will cease complaining about hills.

https://voltbikes.co.uk/e-bikes/folding/lite


 
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ovatsus

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Jan 17, 2023
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I actually made a pre-order of the Flit M2 after doing a test ride. I'll keep using the Analog Motion until then. The other day I got a reminder while I really like foldable bikes, though, and that made me gave up of going back to full size bikes. I got a puncture midway home in the evening, and no chance of taking it on the bus, tube, or getting an Uber home...
 

cyclebuddy

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Nov 2, 2016
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I got a puncture midway home in the evening, and no chance of taking it on the bus, tube, or getting an Uber home...
Many local Taxi companies have estate cars and/or minibuses/8-seater vans for groups that you can easily chuck a full-sized bike in... nearly all have some on their fleet (even in central London), and they generally don't cost more to use... you just need to ask for one.

I'm warming to upgrading my Fiido to one of ebco's "street" models; Bafang rear hub or torque/mid-drive. A local(ish) shop has started stocking them because "they're a sharp ride and great fun". More BMX than foldable (handlebars can be rotated though to fold flat against a wall), and still 20" wheeled so fairly train friendly. This one is Bafang M410/80Nm torque sensor mid-drive, 500wh LG cell battery, Tektro hydraulic brakes, Nexus 8-speed hub geared... with lights, mudguards, chainguard, prop stand... it's a sweet mix for a commute IMHO.

Shop eBikes - EBCO (ebco-ebikes.co.uk)

56447
 
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guerney

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it's a sweet mix for a commute IMHO.

Shop eBikes - EBCO (ebco-ebikes.co.uk)
That has the same wheelbase as my Helios, looks like it'll ride pretty sweet. What's the rider weight limit? Can it cope with Rapid Fatso? Hope so - dangerous fatsos might stop buying Surrons...




(The second part should have been this adulterated version of that GoPro vid)

 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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I'm warming to upgrading my Fiido to one of ebco's "street" models; Bafang rear hub or torque/mid-drive.
Shop eBikes - EBCO (ebco-ebikes.co.uk)

And it has mudguards! I hope you buy one and write a review. Mid drive on 20" wheels is so much fun. I don't know how extensively the Bafang M410 firmware can be fiddled with though, might not be as much fun as my BBS01B 20" wheeled folding bike conversion - fast acceleration, excellent hill climbing and trailer hauling ability.

Big advantage of not having a fold of course, is that you can use max amps the motor and battery combo is capable of, without worrying about motor torque snapping the frame... install a Phaserunner or other controller and a more powerful battery, at some later stage if needed. Imagine 30A mid-drive acceleration to 15.5mph on 20" wheels, and max motor run on in firmware - you wouldn't have to worry about having to pedal fast, because minimal very low effort pedalling would only be to activate very long motor run on. Use ebrakes to turn off pedal assist: technically legal (it's not a cruise mode), almost zero effort cycling for for old or ill folk. Torque sensored mid-motor controller firmware parameters permitting, cadence sensored would make for easier pedalling.

Can you fit a rear pannier rack?

Saw a Youtube video of a CAN bus enabled Bafang mid-motor being powered by a generic two wire battery. @ about 33m 48s:





handlebars can be rotated though to fold flat against a wall
Neat feature.
 
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cyclebuddy

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Nov 2, 2016
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I suspect the street mid-drives (3 & 5) are CANbus. 5 is out of stock; some places that still have them are charging £300 over RRP, so it must be in demand. 3 is still available with less powerful Bafang mid-drive (£1800), but it's the full-fat 5 that interests me. Plenty of street 2's available, rear-hub Bafang at £1400.

When first conceived in 2020 (street 1), they had removable semi-on/in-frame batteries, but the bikes never really launched due to Covid. They've since changed that; the battery is now in-frame and unremovable which is one aspect I'm not too keen on, and the other is the frame welds... Even on a Fiido D11 @ £725 they're as smooth as a babies bum yet here on all the ebco street frames (RRP's £1400-£2400) they're all a bit rough and blobby. Should be slicker at the price I think. The street 2 has a rear rack, street 3 & 5 I don't know if it's threaded/has bosses for one (the frame differs quite a bit other than just the mid-motor mount).

Those are the things that put me off... but IBS's and even Halfords are selling these now, so there might be some sale that comes along.
 
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