Help with the law please

[eddieo]

Doesn't this device also record all of the parameters which might be somewhat of an own goal.

Absolutely...And all these assumptions that the police are stupid are frankly laughable and childish. all they would have to do is look on the speedict website to find spec and if performance adjustable the bike isn't legal is it? Surely a bit like the green button on wisper which they had to remove to get bikes to conform to the law.......

 

[cwah]

Absolutely...And all these assumptions that the police are stupid are frankly laughable and childish. all they would have to do is look on the speedict website to find spec and if performance adjustable the bike isn't legal is it? Surely a bit like the green button on wisper which they had to remove to get bikes to conform to the law.......

As long as the bike is restricted to 15 mph with a speedict, doesn't that make the bike legal? You just need a bike with a speed limitation of 15 mph on public road. But nothing prevent you from having the same bike going at 30 mph off-road isn't it?

 

[funkylyn]

As long as the bike is restricted to 15 mph with a speedict, doesn't that make the bike legal? You just need a bike with a speed limitation of 15 mph on public road. But nothing prevent you from having the same bike going at 30 mph off-road isn't it?

Good point !

Lynda

 

[eddieo]

As long as the bike is restricted to 15 mph with a speedict, doesn't that make the bike legal? You just need a bike with a speed limitation of 15 mph on public road. But nothing prevent you from having the same bike going at 30 mph off-road isn't it?

I dont think so....As if it can be adjusted it does not conform with the EN regs, so no longer an e bike exempt from the law.

If that was the case, I could have a switch on my wisper offering two modes? sport off road and street legal mode, but this has been made abundantly clear is illegal so any sort of means off adjustment, must surely be as well?

anyway if you are observed by a witness travelling at speed or involved in an accident, it wont take the police techs long to find out that the bike is illegal I would think

 

[cwah]

I dont think so....As if it can be adjusted it does not conform with the EN regs, so no longer an e bike exempt from the law.

If that was the case, I could have a switch on my wisper offering two modes? sport off road and street legal mode, but this has been made abundantly clear is illegal so any sort of means off adjustment, must surely be as well?

anyway if you are observed by a witness travelling at speed or involved in an accident, it wont take the police techs long to find out that the bike is illegal I would think

Or anyther tip would to use a double voltage system with 2 harness I was thinking about:
- Have 4 lipo of 18.5V8AH each
- Use a harness to connect them in series for off road use at 74V8AH
- Use another harness to connect them in parallel for public road use AT 37V16AH

When then check, just use the harness to quickly switch to the parallel setup at 15 mph.

So when they check, the speed will be limited to 15 mph whatever the police tech guys are trying to do.

ps: Of course, they can plug another battery for higher voltage, but they can do that for any bike too. The only suspicion would be the controller and motor that would be able to handle much more voltage. But I suppose most ebike system can handle more voltage than the specified one for security

 

[flecc]

Not been reading the entire thread (sorry only pop in here now n then) but presume all the bikes we purchase in the UK are within EU limits then? ie, my Hungarian one should surely be conforming.....?

Yes, virtually all the standard bikes are legal, and your Gepida certainly is, it's Yamaha unit conforming in every respect to EU law.
.

 

[eddieo]

Or anyther tip would to use a double voltage system with 2 harness I was thinking about:
- Have 4 lipo of 18.5V8AH each
- Use a harness to connect them in series for off road use at 74V8AH
- Use another harness to connect them in parallel for public road use AT 37V16AH

When then check, just use the harness to quickly switch to the parallel setup at 15 mph.

So when they check, the speed will be limited to 15 mph whatever the police tech guys are trying to do.

ps: Of course, they can plug another battery for higher voltage, but they can do that for any bike too. The only suspicion would be the controller and motor that would be able to handle much more voltage. But I suppose most ebike system can handle more voltage than the specified one for security

All very well, but what if you are lying on the ground with a broken whatever, and bike under a car..what then?

Like that old saying that I cant remember right now, about being fine to drive home with one drink over the limit then someone hits you.

 

[cwah]

In that case I'll crawl to the car to switch the harness before I loose conscience...

No, more seriously I'd be seriously screwed.. Lol

 

[flecc]

As long as the bike is restricted to 15 mph with a speedict, doesn't that make the bike legal? You just need a bike with a speed limitation of 15 mph on public road. But nothing prevent you from having the same bike going at 30 mph off-road isn't it?

No it doesn't make the bike legal. The law is quite clear, the bike itself has to control the assist speed limitation in all circumstances. Alteration by an external means under the control of the operator is illegal, being remote is irrelevant.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Doesn't this device also record all of the parameters which might be somewhat of an own goal.

Only if you connect the speed sensor, which is optional. Plus, would they know what it was and how to get data out. I would guess that their first test would be the speed test - not disassembly of the bike.

Also, you can delete all the data from it using your mobile phone while they wheel it away.

Plus, the Speedict keeps a rolling 24 hrs worth of data. Just leave it connected to the battery, and by the time they try to get any data out it'll all be over-written with zeros.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I dont think so....As if it can be adjusted it does not conform with the EN regs, so no longer an e bike exempt from the law.

If that was the case, I could have a switch on my wisper offering two modes? sport off road and street legal mode, but this has been made abundantly clear is illegal so any sort of means off adjustment, must surely be as well?

anyway if you are observed by a witness travelling at speed or involved in an accident, it wont take the police techs long to find out that the bike is illegal I would think

All Ebikes can be adjusted for speed some are more tricky than others: You can change battery voltage, solder shunts, reprogram the controller, re-wire it, remove sensors. Does that therefore render all ebikes illegal?

If a witness sees you going fast, he has no way of knowing how hard you're pedalling, so that wouldn't help the police in court.

 

[wurly]

Do members not think it worth having public liability insurance to cover a claim against you....... especially from someone who is put out of work for a while as this could be a considerable lump of money.

So is there anyone who offers public liability insurance for cyclists/e cyclists?

Edit: it seems I have public liability cover up to 5 million, through our household insurer UIA. Probably worth checking!

Thats a very good question. My household insurance is up for renewal. I'm insured for 'up to £2million, liability to the public' under the buildings section. I'm not sure that having an accident with a bicycle would be covered. I'd certainly like to know, but i cannot find anything in any of literature i currently have.
Has anyone else checked their insurance or can tell me for sure?

 

[flecc]

I haven't an answer to that Wurly, but if in doubt CTC membership gives £10 million third party cover, plus benefits like bike shop discounts, magazines etc:

Join CTC membership

Wiggle are doing a discounted membership at £3 off currently.

 

[mike killay]

I haven't an answer to that Wurly, but if in doubt CTC membership gives £10 million third party cover, plus benefits like bike shop discounts, magazines etc:

Join CTC membership

Wiggle are doing a discounted membership at £3 off currently.

Does that apply to e-bikes?

Mike

 

[wurly]

CTC Insurance
I checked earlier. It does.
You are covered by third party insurance unless cycles are mechanically propelled other than electical assistance

 

[flecc]

CTC are officially quite pro e-bikes these days, the old anti feelings of earlier years long gone thank goodness.

They even have an advice page on electric bikes, and e-bike discussion in their forum is very kind about this pedelecs site.

 

[morphix]

I have a friend a motorhomer like myself with a E Bike again like my self we were at a rally the other weekend and were out on are e bikes. We were cycling along the cycle lane on the footpath when a person walked out of a gate and straight into the path of my friend on his bike. The ambulance was called and the police it turned out the person has a broken leg my friend was OK but the front wheel on his bike is a right off.

It turns out now that the police is going to prosecute him as the bike has a 250 watts motor and should have tax and insurance. As my e bike has the same motor could someone please tell me the law regarding E Bikes please.

As flecc pointed out it seems unlikely the police/CPS would bring charges for unlicensed/uninsured vehicle as the bike is presumeabely road legal at 250W. Your friend needs to find out exactly what he has been charged with. But if he's riding on a footpath and caused an accident that caused someone personal injuries, that in itself could well be a criminal offense I think in many towns. Some town councils take the view you can't ride on footpaths in built-up areas unless there is a sign specifically saying you can, cyclists are expected to dismount on ordinary pavements which are only for pedestrians.

The other side of this is the accident... because the person suffered a serious injury because the bicycle was on the path (and presumably going quite fast to cause such damage to the bike itself), the police could go for reckless use of the bike or riding without due care and attention for pedestrians. I think that would happen with an ordinary bike in the same situation but the fact its electric and can go faster just complicates matters and has probably got the police more interested in trying to prosecute to discourage others.

Let this be a wake-up call to us all eh. It's tempting to zoom along paths but you never know when someone is going to step out from around a corner or behind a hedge. It's better to dismount or go very slowly in built up areas. Make use of your bell etc.

 

[amigafan2003]

Let this be a wake-up call to us all eh. It's tempting to zoom along paths but you never know when someone is going to step out from around a corner or behind a hedge. It's better to dismount or go very slowly in built up areas. Make use of your bell etc.

I think that's the best message - ignoring all this legal/not legal/above 15mph/below 15mph/above 250w/below 250w/throttle/no throttle rubbish at the end of the day no matter what bike you're on you need to act and ride responsibily and have consideration for others that share the cylce routes*

*in this instance though I don't see how the cyclist could have avoided this incident - the pedestrian seems soley at fault, assuming they stepped onto a cycle path and not a pedestrian only path.

 

[flecc]

ignoring all this legal/not legal/above 15mph/below 15mph/above 250w/below 250w/throttle/no throttle rubbish

*in this instance though I don't see how the cyclist could have avoided this incident - the pedestrian seems soley at fault, assuming they stepped onto a cycle path and not a pedestrian only path.

While I agree about sensible use, that's not an alternative to legality which is far from being rubbish. There will be more posted on this subject shortly once it's cleared to do so.

This is not just an issue of blame for the accident, so comments on the accident and e-bike legality are probably best avoided until the fuller circumstances surrounding this issue are made public.