Help!! First ebike!!

[900389]

Hello all
So I’m looking at buying my first ebike and expecting to be doing around 25 miles each outing, only using it for leisure family rides along the river and flat bike trails, what would people recommend??
At the moment I’m looking at the EZEGO trail destroyer at £1199 and the Rockrider E-ST 500v2 at £1099.
My budget is £1200 tops
Any feedback, opinions or recommendations would be great
Thanks

 

[sjpt]

Certainly look at the Woosh Santana CD https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-cd (it is even available now). Not as mountain-bike like as those, but quite capable of easy tracks and trails.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

The Carrera Subway ebike at Halfords is very good and in your price range. It has a torque based sensor so delivers more power the harder you work in a similar way to mid-drive ebikes but is still hub motor based. It uses a Suntour designed ebike motor system which does have some history of electrical gremlins but on the other hard many Carrera ebikes seem to be the ebike of choice for uber and deliveroo couriers using the same system who put in a huge amount of miles on them.

 

[900389]

Certainly look at the Woosh Santana CD https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?santana-cd (it is even available now). Not as mountain-bike like as those, but quite capable of easy tracks and trails.

I did look at the Woosh bikes but I think they are having problems with stock at the minute, and I have messaged them so will know soon on availability as I had my eye on the Rio ls fat bike

 

[900389]

The Carrera Subway ebike at Halfords is very good and in your price range. It has a torque based sensor so delivers more power the harder you work in a similar way to mid-drive ebikes but is still hub motor based. It uses a Suntour designed ebike motor system which does have some history of electrical gremlins but on the other hard many Carrera ebikes seem to be the ebike of choice for uber and deliveroo couriers using the same system who put in a huge amount of miles on them.

Thanks for that I will take a look at the Carrera bikes at Halfords, I don’t know a lot about the systems they all use but quite like the sound of the cadence sensor rear hub bikes

 

[vfr400]

Thanks for that I will take a look at the Carrera bikes at Halfords, I don’t know a lot about the systems they all use but quite like the sound of the cadence sensor rear hub bikes

Be warned that there are a lot of problems reported. They have updated some things, but it's too early to say whether they're any better now. If anything goes wrong, your beholden to Halfords because the systems are more or less bespoke, and by many accounts, they're not quick to sort things.

The Crossfire is a lovely bike when it works, but for many people, that's sadly not for very long. Everybody I know that had the last version of the Crossfire had some sort of problem with it, or to turn it round the other way, I've never heard of a person that didn't get problems. That's pretty grim.

 

[budsy]

Im wondering how them Kalkhoff e bikes are but have hard good things about them

was in a bike shop the other day looking at one, and was put onto another store that

is a big seller of them bikes made in Germany , as im only interested in gears inside
hub of bike and is some of them with such .

Pay more £s they are, but practically no maintenance with gearing inside hubs of bikes
but if need gears fixed for whatever reason then costlier than Deralliuer gearing ..

My experience id go for gearing inside hub of bike, as then in all weathers your gears
are hidden from the elements and practically maintenance free .

 

[Edward Elizabeth]

If you're not taking it properly off road, don't bother with anything either suspension. At this price point its invariable dire with poor spring rates and non existent damping, and you're lugging round d an extra kilo or so of extra mass for no gain.

Something like the current version of the Carrera Subway Electric would suit very nicely and will have the range you require. The current model has a complete Suntour e-drivetrain and not a mish mash of other manufacturers and has cured most of the cutting out faults and persistent error code problems that plagued earlier models. The drive train is not bespoke, is pure off the shelf Suntour.

Carrera Subway E

So Carrera has done it again: this is probably the best all-round bike I’ve tried that’s currently available for less than a thousand pounds. Of course there are some compromises, but the motor system you get, and the level of equipment it’s fitted with, puts it right at the top of the list if...

ebiketips.road.cc

 

[900389]

If you're not taking it properly off road, don't bother with anything either suspension. At this price point its invariable dire with poor spring rates and non existent damping, and you're lugging round d an extra kilo or so of extra mass for no gain.

Something like the current version of the Carrera Subway Electric would suit very nicely and will have the range you require. The current model has a complete Suntour e-drivetrain and not a mish mash of other manufacturers and has cured most of the cutting out faults and persistent error code problems that plagued earlier models. The drive train is not bespoke, is pure off the shelf Suntour.

Carrera Subway E

So Carrera has done it again: this is probably the best all-round bike I’ve tried that’s currently available for less than a thousand pounds. Of course there are some compromises, but the motor system you get, and the level of equipment it’s fitted with, puts it right at the top of the list if...

ebiketips.road.cc

Thanks for that gives a nice read and looks a good bike for the money Answering lots of questions too
Guess your right as well on the suspension part, not really taking off road much so could probably do with out, thinks a visit to Halfords is on the cards for me well when they finally get stock!

 

[Woosh]

take a look also at the Woosh Caminos.

Camino MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Camino, a very sturdy electric bike with hydraulic brakes 36V 15/17AH battery from Woosh. Price range: �£1049-�£1119.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Gran Camino MTB electric bicycle from Woosh

The Woosh Gran Camino, a 27.5 electric mountain bike with hydraulic brakes 36V 15AH/17AH battery from Woosh. Price range: £1379-£1459. Great bike for trails.

wooshbikes.co.uk

 

[Gringo]

If you join British Cycling (I think it’s about £30) you’ll get 10% off all cycling products at Halfords, that’s £100 saved on the subway or money to spend on extra like a pump, tool kit, mudguards etc.
There’s of other benefits to British Cycling including liability insurance and legal aid

 

[jsisidore]

Go with Halfords for they will fix it for you if something will go wrong. Of course their bikes are not bargain, the parts are cheap for the price, and build quality is merely acceptable. If it was for something more serious like daily commuting I would get a decent mid-range hybrid bike, convert it and learn how to maintain it and fix it yourself.

 

[Edward Elizabeth]

Go with Halfords for they will fix it for you if something will go wrong. Of course their bikes are not bargain, the parts are cheap for the price, and build quality is merely acceptable. If it was for something more serious like daily commuting I would get a decent mid-range hybrid bike, convert it and learn how to maintain it and fix it yourself.

I mentioned the Carrera Subway electric above.

Very nice 6061 frame. Their frames used to be made by Merida, although I'm not sure who does them now. Either way, a proper spec material and welded very cleanly.

4130 CroMo fork. Very respectable grade of material, in the past often used in aircraft structures and still favoured by many for touring bike frames. It has very similar mechanical properties to Reynolds 531, so is a long, long way from being mere gas pipe.

Shimano drivetrain with plated KMC chain. OK, only Altus, but it works cleanly and efficiently, as only Shimano seem to know how to do with budget geartrains.

Full Suntour HESC system, from display to motor and everything in between. No cheap unbranded Chinese bits snuck in.

Very effective Tektro hydraulic brakes.

Even the Kenda reflex belted tyres are decent.

So I would be very interested to know which components are "cheap for the price ", because to my mind it's an extremely effective, well thought out specification?

There are some models in the range that feature a less than desirable mix of components - the vengeance ebike, for example - but you're assertion that Carrera bikes are somehow a bit cheap and nasty is far, far from universally true. In fact there are some genuine gems in their range, if you actually know what you're looking at.

The OP came to us for sensible advice, not misinformation or brand prejudice.

PS - no, I don't work for Halfords, and don't own a Carrera ebike (my ebikes are Trek and Felt). However, I have spent a few weeks with my SiLs Subway electric while he was on holiday and it is a very respectable machine in it's own right, and for the money a real gem.

 

[vfr400]

I mentioned the Carrera Subway electric above.

Very nice 6061 frame. Their frames used to be made by Merida, although I'm not sure who does them now. Either way, a proper spec material and welded very cleanly.

4130 CroMo fork. Very respectable grade of material, in the past often used in aircraft structures and still favoured by many for touring bike frames. It has very similar mechanical properties to Reynolds 531, so is a long, long way from being mere gas pipe.

Shimano drivetrain with plated KMC chain. OK, only Altus, but it works cleanly and efficiently, as only Shimano seem to know how to do with budget geartrains.

Full Suntour HESC system, from display to motor and everything in between. No cheap unbranded Chinese bits snuck in.

Very effective Tektro hydraulic brakes.

Even the Kenda reflex belted tyres are decent.

So I would be very interested to know which components are "cheap for the price ", because to my mind it's an extremely effective, well thought out specification?

There are some models in the range that feature a less than desirable mix of components - the vengeance ebike, for example - but you're assertion that Carrera bikes are somehow a bit cheap and nasty is far, far from universally true. In fact there are some genuine gems in their range, if you actually know what you're looking at.

The OP came to us for sensible advice, not misinformation or brand prejudice.

PS - no, I don't work for Halfords, and don't own a Carrera ebike (my ebikes are Trek and Felt). However, I have spent a few weeks with my SiLs Subway electric while he was on holiday and it is a very respectable machine in it's own right, and for the money a real gem.

As already said, they're great bikes when they're running, but, by accounts and posts on this forum and from my own and friends experience, sadly, that's not very long.

 

[Edward Elizabeth]

We can all cite examples of ebikes from all makes that have been iffy. My first Trek had a persistent fault where it would switch on but wouldn't provide any assistance and ended up with the entire bike being replaced (the replacement has been fine) - so much for an all Bosch powertrain!

Hellfrauds are the UKs biggest seller of ebikes by a huge margin, and reckon they've sold in excess of 70,000 of them, nearly all Carrera, since they started 5 or 6 years ago - we're only seeing more people complaining about Carrera for the simple reason they are selling way, way more than anyone else.

Name another brand of ebike that has sold even a 10th of that in the UK - you can't, because there isn't, and that's the only reason we don't hear so many complaints about other brands, but the complaints are out there if you go looking for them, such as my experience with Trek/Bosch.

And to cap it all off, going back to the Subway again, that model is revised for 2020. No mixing or matching of electric drive components, and is much better than the earlier version as a result.

No one is suggesting that any brand of ebike is guaranteed to be without fault or failure. However, the hysteria over Carrera is unjustified when one sets the problems against the huge volumes that have been sold, and jsisidore's sweeping comments about "cheap" components was so sweeping as to be utterly inaccurate.

Perspective is what most people lack when talking about this, and few seem bothered to look at the matter in depth and form an objective understanding of the issue.

 

[vfr400]

We can all cite examples of ebikes from all makes that have been iffy. My first Trek had a persistent fault where it would switch on but wouldn't provide any assistance and ended up with the entire bike being replaced (the replacement has been fine) - so much for an all Bosch powertrain!

Hellfrauds are the UKs biggest seller of ebikes by a huge margin, and reckon they've sold in excess of 70,000 of them, nearly all Carrera, since they started 5 or 6 years ago - we're only seeing more people complaining about Carrera for the simple reason they are selling way, way more than anyone else.

Name another brand of ebike that has sold even a 10th of that in the UK - you can't, because there isn't, and that's the only reason we don't hear so many complaints about other brands, but the complaints are out there if you go looking for them, such as my experience with Trek/Bosch.

And to cap it all off, going back to the Subway again, that model is revised for 2020. No mixing or matching of electric drive components, and is much better than the earlier version as a result.

No one is suggesting that any brand of ebike is guaranteed to be without fault or failure. However, the hysteria over Carrera is unjustified when one sets the problems against the huge volumes that have been sold, and jsisidore's sweeping comments about "cheap" components was so sweeping as to be utterly inaccurate.

Perspective is what most people lack when talking about this, and few seem bothered to look at the matter in depth and form an objective understanding of the issue.

The revised models still have the same torque sensor that has been very problematic.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

The revised models still have the same torque sensor that has been very problematic.

How do you know that if such bikes have sold in huge quantities compared to other brands. If Carrera have sold 100,000-200,000 of ebikes fitted with Suntour ebike systems and another brand has only sold 10,000 unless you know the actual failure rate it is unfair to criticise them. A high end Bosch e-mountain bike may have sold less than a 1000 units in the UK yet failures are commonly reported in forums.

Halford's are huge in the UK, one quarter of all cycle shops are Halfords, about 1/4 of all cycling revenue is spent at Halfords. Ebike sales have increased by 45% I think since last year I think I read in the report below and I think last year they stated 11% of bicycle sales were ebikes. That is an absolutely huge figure and most of the other ebikes being sold aren't high end they are Amazon, ebay, Argos etc at sub £1k prices. As ever the majority of sales are lower models. The cost of one £6k high end mid-drive bike is the cost of about 15 £400 Argos ebikes. I just don't think people realise how insignificant higher end ebikes are in actual sales and revenue yet dominate forum postings for faults.

https://www.halfordscompany.com/media/2727/halfords-annual-report-2020-webready.pdf

Many of the recent Carrera, Voodoo and Boardman models have frames made by Insera Sena of Indonesia and other models are still coming from Cambodia which could be fuji-ta. Both factories make frames for many top brands; Kona, Scott, Specialized, Cannondale etc. Some big brands have switched to lower quality cheaper factories in Bangladesh but as far as I know Halford's only use them for cheaper brands like Apollo, young childrens bikes etc.

 

[vfr400]

How do you know that if such bikes have sold in huge quantities compared to other brands. If Carrera have sold 100,000-200,000 of ebikes fitted with Suntour ebike systems and another brand has only sold 10,000 unless you know the actual failure rate it is unfair to criticise them. A high end Bosch e-mountain bike may have sold less than a 1000 units in the UK yet failures are commonly reported in forums.

Halford's are huge in the UK, one quarter of all cycle shops are Halfords, about 1/4 of all cycling revenue is spent at Halfords. Ebike sales have increased by 45% I think since last year I think I read in the report below and I think last year they stated 11% of bicycle sales were ebikes. That is an absolutely huge figure and most of the other ebikes being sold aren't high end they are Amazon, ebay, Argos etc at sub £1k prices. As ever the majority of sales are lower models. The cost of one £6k high end mid-drive bike is the cost of about 15 £400 Argos ebikes. I just don't think people realise how insignificant higher end ebikes are in actual sales and revenue yet dominate forum postings for faults.

https://www.halfordscompany.com/media/2727/halfords-annual-report-2020-webready.pdf

Many of the recent Carrera, Voodoo and Boardman models have frames made by Insera Sena of Indonesia and other models are still coming from Cambodia which could be fuji-ta. Both factories make frames for many top brands; Kona, Scott, Specialized, Cannondale etc. Some big brands have switched to lower quality cheaper factories in Bangladesh but as far as I know Halford's only use them for cheaper brands like Apollo, young childrens bikes etc.

It's simple. If you sample 20 bikes out of the entire population, and every one has problems, then one can make the very reasonable assumption that if you were to buy one of the non-sampled bikes, there's a fair chance that yours would develop faults too.

Or to put it another way. Say they made 20, 000 and only 20 were faulty. The chance of picking one of them at random would be 1/1000. The chance of picking all 20 out of 20 random samples would be roughly 1/10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Kwozzymodo]

Build your own. Get a good quality bike - plenty of bikes available on auction sites, etc. A hub motor, along with a kit plus battery will cost around £350.

 

[Woosh]

Full Suntour HESC system, from display to motor and everything in between. No cheap unbranded Chinese bits snuck in.

I agree with all you said but this one. HESC pedal and torque sensor sucks.
Where they place it, water ingress will kill the electronics and it's a closed system, where will you find spares?
Theirs is also one size fits all. Why do you have a variety of bikes and one kit? At least, offer a choice of torque and/or pedal sensors and a choice of motors for different applications.