Has anyone tried or bought an Emotion bike?
- Thread starter AndyOfTheSouth
- Start date
If you get to try the Sport Deluxe, I'd certainly be interested in knowing how you find it - and I suspect I'm not alone.
Rog.
If you've never ridden a Panasonic powered bike before, be aware that the full power is only available up to a cadence (pedal revolutions) of 40 per minute. From then it phases down to cut off at a cadence of 65, roughly one turn per second. That 65 cadence is the 15 mph assist cutoff of course.
Lots of people on their first ride make the mistake of thinking the system a bit weak and then pedal faster to try to buck things up. Of course it does the opposite!
Just take it easy and change up the gears to keep the pedalling rate moderate to get the best out of it.
The system doesn't have a continuous running motor, it adds to the power you exert on each pedal stroke multiplying your muscle power.
.
Lots of people on their first ride make the mistake of thinking the system a bit weak and then pedal faster to try to buck things up. Of course it does the opposite!
Just take it easy and change up the gears to keep the pedalling rate moderate to get the best out of it.
The system doesn't have a continuous running motor, it adds to the power you exert on each pedal stroke multiplying your muscle power.
.
Rog, OK, will do.
Flecc, thanks for the advice. I take it that this means I should try to keep the bike in as high a gear as is comfortable?
Do you happen to know if the Panasonic system used on the Emotion range is as powerful as used on other UK-legal bikes?
Flecc, thanks for the advice. I take it that this means I should try to keep the bike in as high a gear as is comfortable?
Do you happen to know if the Panasonic system used on the Emotion range is as powerful as used on other UK-legal bikes?
Yes, that's the general idea. Many owners find they only use the upper gears.
I can't say with absolute certainty, but the Panasonic system on the E-motion bikes appears to be exactly the same type as other makes use, but they often include the 8 Ah battery to save weight, offering the option of the 10 Ah hour one that most makes use.
Using that 8 Ah battery makes them appear like some of the slightly lower power 2007 bikes from Gazelle and others which had the 8Ah battery as the only type supplied at that time.
.
I rode the flat barred version at Prestigne, ON Bike had fitted a rear cassette that had a smaller bottom cog than normal.
I'm a big fan of the idea of drive through gears, but I must confess that the Panasonic control system just doesn't suit my riding style.
I've owned a Lafree, it was old and Knackered, I found that in standard form it was a bit naff. The Kalkoffs I've tried seemed a huge improvement, but they still don't ring my bells.
The Emotion is to my mind a different beast I liked the look, ( white and Red) the feel when stationary, the way it rode, and the performance, ( with the smaller drive cog engaged). If I was buying a crank drive bike it is the only one sporty enough to make me want to own it.
It's a personal thing, but it just looks younger and fresher.
If your interested I feel it would be well worth a trip to On Bike for the test ride, thats from someone who has a bike shop not 5 miles from them.
My only reservation is the control system that doesn't let you drop a few cogs and race up hills. I fitted my Lafree with a Nano motor controller and throttle, it was cheap enough to play with, I wouldn't have done it on a new bike. It was still low powered but just more of what I like.
The version I rode was to my delight a bit of a flyer, just writing about it makes me want to head off down the road for another ride, and my current bike can see high 20's with a bit of pedaling.
I'm a big fan of the idea of drive through gears, but I must confess that the Panasonic control system just doesn't suit my riding style.
I've owned a Lafree, it was old and Knackered, I found that in standard form it was a bit naff. The Kalkoffs I've tried seemed a huge improvement, but they still don't ring my bells.
The Emotion is to my mind a different beast I liked the look, ( white and Red) the feel when stationary, the way it rode, and the performance, ( with the smaller drive cog engaged). If I was buying a crank drive bike it is the only one sporty enough to make me want to own it.
It's a personal thing, but it just looks younger and fresher.
If your interested I feel it would be well worth a trip to On Bike for the test ride, thats from someone who has a bike shop not 5 miles from them.
My only reservation is the control system that doesn't let you drop a few cogs and race up hills. I fitted my Lafree with a Nano motor controller and throttle, it was cheap enough to play with, I wouldn't have done it on a new bike. It was still low powered but just more of what I like.
The version I rode was to my delight a bit of a flyer, just writing about it makes me want to head off down the road for another ride, and my current bike can see high 20's with a bit of pedaling.
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I´ve got an E-motion. It´s a BH and one of the first models. As Flecc says it seems that pedalling slowly with the smaller cogs gives you the impression that the motor is giving you more assistance. Not enough for me -very unfit-when the hills are long, even if not steep. Other than that, they are very confortable.
Well, I spent a happy hour or two pedalling leafy country lanes, mostly on the E-motion Cross Deluxe.
The E-motion range looks like a completely different generation from almost all other ebikes (though see caveat below). The bikes look like ‘proper’ bikes and that is how they felt to ride.
I mostly rode with the power off, and very pleasant it was too. The suspension and hybrid-style tyres of the Cross produced a smooth and comfortable ride. Power on, and it made the ride on the flat and up gentle inclines fast and easy.
What remained unclear, however, was how the power would have coped with a long steep hill. I had various goes at pedalling with and without power in different gears up the only slope within range. It was not clear to me that I had got the hang of it. The level of assistance was fine for that not too demanding gradient, but up a proper hill… I still don’t know.
For comparison, I had one ride on an eZee Sprint, a hefty and crude bit of engineering alongside the E-motion. I certainly wouldn’t be riding that unpowered for fun, but when it came to the slope, I simply opened up the throttle, pedalled a bit, and up I went. Easy. Riding back, I instinctively used the power and didn’t pedal much.
Rog asked about the Sport Deluxe. I didn’t try that, though I did have one ride on its slightly cheaper cousin, the Sport. As with the Cross, it was lively and pleasant, but, unlike the Cross, it had a very firm ride. I am unfamiliar with sports bikes, but the skinny tyres and lack of suspension made me very aware of even small marks on the road surface.
On the subject of the appearance… I can picture the scene in the Spanish design office. The frames are shown, the wheels are discussed, the colourways compared, then one of the managers points to what looks like a small upright vacuum cleaner and asks where they can put it. Well, I can’t speak Spanish, but I can imagine the general anatomical drift of the suggestions from the design team.
The general look of the bikes is superb and in the context of lumpy ebikes is positively magical. The motor unit is discreet, but the nasty, rectangular, glossy plastic battery is very obtrusive, especially on the white framed, skinny-tyred Sport models.
Overall, would I like an E-motion? Yes. Would I actually buy one? Depends on its hill climbing ability, which is still unresolved. But if I did, I would straightaway be trying to find a way of covering or replacing the battery.
The E-motion range looks like a completely different generation from almost all other ebikes (though see caveat below). The bikes look like ‘proper’ bikes and that is how they felt to ride.
I mostly rode with the power off, and very pleasant it was too. The suspension and hybrid-style tyres of the Cross produced a smooth and comfortable ride. Power on, and it made the ride on the flat and up gentle inclines fast and easy.
What remained unclear, however, was how the power would have coped with a long steep hill. I had various goes at pedalling with and without power in different gears up the only slope within range. It was not clear to me that I had got the hang of it. The level of assistance was fine for that not too demanding gradient, but up a proper hill… I still don’t know.
For comparison, I had one ride on an eZee Sprint, a hefty and crude bit of engineering alongside the E-motion. I certainly wouldn’t be riding that unpowered for fun, but when it came to the slope, I simply opened up the throttle, pedalled a bit, and up I went. Easy. Riding back, I instinctively used the power and didn’t pedal much.
Rog asked about the Sport Deluxe. I didn’t try that, though I did have one ride on its slightly cheaper cousin, the Sport. As with the Cross, it was lively and pleasant, but, unlike the Cross, it had a very firm ride. I am unfamiliar with sports bikes, but the skinny tyres and lack of suspension made me very aware of even small marks on the road surface.
On the subject of the appearance… I can picture the scene in the Spanish design office. The frames are shown, the wheels are discussed, the colourways compared, then one of the managers points to what looks like a small upright vacuum cleaner and asks where they can put it. Well, I can’t speak Spanish, but I can imagine the general anatomical drift of the suggestions from the design team.
The general look of the bikes is superb and in the context of lumpy ebikes is positively magical. The motor unit is discreet, but the nasty, rectangular, glossy plastic battery is very obtrusive, especially on the white framed, skinny-tyred Sport models.
Overall, would I like an E-motion? Yes. Would I actually buy one? Depends on its hill climbing ability, which is still unresolved. But if I did, I would straightaway be trying to find a way of covering or replacing the battery.
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It was because you hadn't fully got the hang of it Andy, hence my mentions of the system before. In fact Panasonic unit equipped bikes are the best hill climbers of all e-bikes, bar none. They are the only ones that can tackle up to 1 in 3, most e-bikes struggling at 1 in 6 and often much less. It does take a while to get thoroughly used to the system and get the best out of it though.
However, the rider has to make a fixed contribution to the effort on these units. With the power switch in standard mode the rider has to put in 50% of the effort, the motor supplying the other half. In High Power mode the rider has to contribute 43% of what's needed, the motor proving the rest.
The more powerful e-bikes with wheel hub motors will easily beat a Panasonic equipped bike for speed up moderate slopes as you found with the Sprint, but when the hills get steep and slow the bike right down, they cannot maintain their power at low wheel revs and make the rider do most of the work. It's then that the Panasonic types come into their own.
So it's horses for courses. A powerful hub motor bike can be better in moderate terrain, but in the areas with the steepest hills, the Panasonic unit bikes are the best.
.
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E-motion Sport Deluxe Customer Interview
Hi All,
An E-motion Sport Deluxe customer came back into OnBike yesterday, so I took the opportunity to ask him how he was getting on and make some notes - A few people on here have expressed an interest in hearing about a customer's experience, so I've copied the text from our website for anyone interested.
David Henshaw, of A to B, has also tried the E-motion bikes recently.
E-motion bikes are now 5-star rated and top of the David Henshaw's A to B 'Electric Buyers guide'
"we thought the 700 Deluxe we tested gave Kalkhoff Pro-Connect performance at an Agattu price"
Also, in A to B's review this month he states, "On our standard 10-mile commuter run, the regeared E-motion made the fastest run of any crank-drive, with a speed of 32 minutes, some two minutes ahead of the Gepida and Kalkhoff Pro-Connect."
*******E-motion Sport Deluxe Customer Interview*******
OnBike Customer Chris (pictured below) recently purchased an E-motion Sport Deluxe and cycled back a couple of weeks later to let us know what he thought...
Chris's opening words were, "I'd love a cup of tea with one sugar please"
We asked how he'd been getting on and he just smiled and said, "This is an outstanding machine!"
Experienced cyclist Chris has been riding bikes for years and has covered tens of thousands of miles over the years on many bikes, but recently decided he wanted some help on the hills and to extend his range.
Chris told us he had shopped around and tried several electric bikes with the Panasonic system, but said, "The E-motion far exceeded my expectations".
"I rode it home, from OnBike to Stourbridge, the day I bought it and unfortunately it was into a headwind, but on this bike it was a piece of cake"
Chris Continued, "It's a proper road bike. I've already covered 350 miles on it and pedalling with no power on is excellent - then you come to a steep hill, turn on the power and it really comes into its own... It really does"
Chris added, "I even took it along tracks and canals and it handled all the environments I came across brilliantly - There's no limit to what this bike can do".
We asked Chris about the efficiency and range he was achieving and he told us, "I went for a ride with the bike in low power mode and much to my surprise, I had covered 50 miles and still had one light left remaining on the battery!"
Chris continued, "The bike's so light I ride it with the power switched off, like my old manual bike, and just turn on the power for any hills, so battery life is not an issue to me regardless of how far I go"
Chris finished his cup of tea, bought some oil, pointed to his bike and exclaimed, "This is the future of cycling"
Thank you Chris
All Smiles: Chris and his new E-motion Sport Deluxe Electric Bike
Cheers...
Hi All,
An E-motion Sport Deluxe customer came back into OnBike yesterday, so I took the opportunity to ask him how he was getting on and make some notes - A few people on here have expressed an interest in hearing about a customer's experience, so I've copied the text from our website for anyone interested.
David Henshaw, of A to B, has also tried the E-motion bikes recently.
E-motion bikes are now 5-star rated and top of the David Henshaw's A to B 'Electric Buyers guide'
"we thought the 700 Deluxe we tested gave Kalkhoff Pro-Connect performance at an Agattu price"
Also, in A to B's review this month he states, "On our standard 10-mile commuter run, the regeared E-motion made the fastest run of any crank-drive, with a speed of 32 minutes, some two minutes ahead of the Gepida and Kalkhoff Pro-Connect."
*******E-motion Sport Deluxe Customer Interview*******
OnBike Customer Chris (pictured below) recently purchased an E-motion Sport Deluxe and cycled back a couple of weeks later to let us know what he thought...
Chris's opening words were, "I'd love a cup of tea with one sugar please"
We asked how he'd been getting on and he just smiled and said, "This is an outstanding machine!"
Experienced cyclist Chris has been riding bikes for years and has covered tens of thousands of miles over the years on many bikes, but recently decided he wanted some help on the hills and to extend his range.
Chris told us he had shopped around and tried several electric bikes with the Panasonic system, but said, "The E-motion far exceeded my expectations".
"I rode it home, from OnBike to Stourbridge, the day I bought it and unfortunately it was into a headwind, but on this bike it was a piece of cake"
Chris Continued, "It's a proper road bike. I've already covered 350 miles on it and pedalling with no power on is excellent - then you come to a steep hill, turn on the power and it really comes into its own... It really does"
Chris added, "I even took it along tracks and canals and it handled all the environments I came across brilliantly - There's no limit to what this bike can do".
We asked Chris about the efficiency and range he was achieving and he told us, "I went for a ride with the bike in low power mode and much to my surprise, I had covered 50 miles and still had one light left remaining on the battery!"
Chris continued, "The bike's so light I ride it with the power switched off, like my old manual bike, and just turn on the power for any hills, so battery life is not an issue to me regardless of how far I go"
Chris finished his cup of tea, bought some oil, pointed to his bike and exclaimed, "This is the future of cycling"
Thank you Chris
All Smiles: Chris and his new E-motion Sport Deluxe Electric Bike
Cheers...
>>With the power switch in standard mode the rider has to put in 50% of the effort, the motor supplying the other half. In High Power mode the rider has to contribute 43% of what's needed, the motor proving the rest.
>>
I hesitate to quibble with the ever-helpful and knowledgeable flecc, but:
My e-motion manual says the 3 power modes “multiply the rider’s effort by 1.5, 2 & 2.5” (to paraphrase a bit). I get that to mean the rider has to contribute 66%, 50% & 40%. That 3% less in high-power mode could make all the difference ;-)
I bought an e-motion Cross Deluxe a month ago, just before a 2-week break, so I’ve only been using it in earnest for a week and a bit. When I’ve done 100 miles on it (fairly soon), I’ll post a review.
First impressions (on my 3 mile commute, nearly all of which is flipping hills and through traffic, and comparing it with my now-defunct Wisper 905e):
Delightful. I’m still getting the hang (as flecc suggests) of the gearing/power-assist, and I’ve only used the lowest power mode (as a way of getting fitter and due to my inherent masochism).
Very responsive, and much more like a non-electric bike. I forgot to turn on the power on my journey home last week and was halfway up the second hill (grunting a bit in 3rd gear) before I realised…
More work than the Wisper (as I’m using low-power mode?), but *much* better at punching out from stationary on an incline (did I mention the traffic?). The assist is there as soon as you push on the pedals, whereas the Wisper only cuts in when you’ve got the crank rotating at a certain speed.
Rob
>>
I hesitate to quibble with the ever-helpful and knowledgeable flecc, but:
My e-motion manual says the 3 power modes “multiply the rider’s effort by 1.5, 2 & 2.5” (to paraphrase a bit). I get that to mean the rider has to contribute 66%, 50% & 40%. That 3% less in high-power mode could make all the difference ;-)
I bought an e-motion Cross Deluxe a month ago, just before a 2-week break, so I’ve only been using it in earnest for a week and a bit. When I’ve done 100 miles on it (fairly soon), I’ll post a review.
First impressions (on my 3 mile commute, nearly all of which is flipping hills and through traffic, and comparing it with my now-defunct Wisper 905e):
Delightful. I’m still getting the hang (as flecc suggests) of the gearing/power-assist, and I’ve only used the lowest power mode (as a way of getting fitter and due to my inherent masochism).
Very responsive, and much more like a non-electric bike. I forgot to turn on the power on my journey home last week and was halfway up the second hill (grunting a bit in 3rd gear) before I realised…
More work than the Wisper (as I’m using low-power mode?), but *much* better at punching out from stationary on an incline (did I mention the traffic?). The assist is there as soon as you push on the pedals, whereas the Wisper only cuts in when you’ve got the crank rotating at a certain speed.
Rob
Hi Rob
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. Have you tried any rough ground yet? If not, are you likely to?
Andy
Thanks for posting this - very interesting. Have you tried any rough ground yet? If not, are you likely to?
Andy
Not so Rob, the manual is wrong, they are either being sneaky or don't understand these units since they've included the rider effort, so that's not the rider multiple! It may be a genuine mistake since it's not unusual for bike manufacturers, importers and main agents not to understand these systems thoroughly
Rewriting it properly, that 1.5 in Eco mode is 1 part from the rider and 0.5 from the motor, the 2 in standard mode is 1 from the rider and 1 from the motor (to match Japanese law), and the 2.5 is just plain wrong for the standard Panasonic unit, it's 2.3 which is 1 from the rider and 1.3 from the motor. Hence the 50% and 43% rider contribution for the standard and high speed modes.
Only the high speed unit has a 1.5 times rider effort as the High Power assist mode, and if your bike's unit only powers to 15 mph, it's not a high speed unit, those powering with motor to between 21 and 26 mph depending on the gear system fitted. Let me know if yours is the latter high speed system, but I very much doubt it since the high speed unit bikes cost from £2250 upwards from the two bike manufacturers making them, far more than the £1550 that your bike cost, which is a typical price for a standard unit bike.
.
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I have the Cross De Luxe and after a couple of modifications now feel I have a very satisfactory bike to ride.
On first using the bike I found it significantly under geared, even without using the motor. Pedaling at such a low cadence to maximise motor support did not feel at all natural. First change was the 14-28 cassette (which had identical 15T cog for 6th and 7th gear!) to 11-30. This gave 2 higher gears and 1 lower from the original cassette. Performance was improved but the range now limited. I still found the cadence an issue.
The second mod was to replace the 9T motor sprocket with an 11T. This improved the performance as far as I am concerned quite dramatically. Although I have not recorded the performance in a scientific way but I believe that I now have motor assistance up to around 20mph in top gear with not an unreasonable cadence rate. Also because I am now getting a greater assistance at lower speeds (possibly maximum power to 15mph) I tend to operate the Eco setting as the normal. By doing so the range is almost back to that achieved prior to the mods.
I accept that the manufacturer is not at fault for the bike's original configuration (except perhaps identical 6th & 7th gearing) as they need to comply with the law. So any criticism about the performance would apply to all bikes similarly fitted with the Panasonic system.
Martin
On first using the bike I found it significantly under geared, even without using the motor. Pedaling at such a low cadence to maximise motor support did not feel at all natural. First change was the 14-28 cassette (which had identical 15T cog for 6th and 7th gear!) to 11-30. This gave 2 higher gears and 1 lower from the original cassette. Performance was improved but the range now limited. I still found the cadence an issue.
The second mod was to replace the 9T motor sprocket with an 11T. This improved the performance as far as I am concerned quite dramatically. Although I have not recorded the performance in a scientific way but I believe that I now have motor assistance up to around 20mph in top gear with not an unreasonable cadence rate. Also because I am now getting a greater assistance at lower speeds (possibly maximum power to 15mph) I tend to operate the Eco setting as the normal. By doing so the range is almost back to that achieved prior to the mods.
I accept that the manufacturer is not at fault for the bike's original configuration (except perhaps identical 6th & 7th gearing) as they need to comply with the law. So any criticism about the performance would apply to all bikes similarly fitted with the Panasonic system.
Martin
The undergearing and low cadence is, as you've said, a common complaint with all the Panasonic unit bikes Martin. For that reason I included the 11 tooth modification on my Panasonic support website:
Cadence change
Technically your power assist now extends to around 23 mph, but the power phase down is so advanced in the later stages that it's contribution won't be noticed at such high speeds, hence you only detecting it to about 20 mph.
.
Cadence change
Technically your power assist now extends to around 23 mph, but the power phase down is so advanced in the later stages that it's contribution won't be noticed at such high speeds, hence you only detecting it to about 20 mph.
.
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New to the forum and already took advantage of Flecc's (and his French buddy Emmanuel) know-how.
I got an E-motion from Spain last month. Previously had an Ezee Torq and definitely they’re two worlds apart. I live in the US and the first and most obvious difference is the speed limit, the Ezee was bought in the US and could easily reach over 20mph effortlessly while the 25kph of the E-motion, though not hard to reach, needs some effort from the rider (with the Ezee at full power you could pretend to be cycling and it would get you there). Anyway, as has already been pointed out on this thread is much more of a bike and if you are used to ride you shouldn’t make much effort to find yourself in the no-assist zone. Another huge difference is the range. With the Ezze, 60 Km would exhaust the battery, while I made 50 k last Saturday with the e-motion and barely reached the second red light battery indicator which means that still had over 60% of battery power available.
Fully agree with Aviator’s comment on undergearing so I’m going to start the modifications process beginning by the 11T sprocket (thanks for the tip Flecc!) and once comfortable with it will probably move forward with the cassette substitution. Living in a flat place like Florida, I don’t think that range will ever become an issue.
Aviator/Flecc, any suggestion for the cassette?
Thanks and Best
John
I got an E-motion from Spain last month. Previously had an Ezee Torq and definitely they’re two worlds apart. I live in the US and the first and most obvious difference is the speed limit, the Ezee was bought in the US and could easily reach over 20mph effortlessly while the 25kph of the E-motion, though not hard to reach, needs some effort from the rider (with the Ezee at full power you could pretend to be cycling and it would get you there). Anyway, as has already been pointed out on this thread is much more of a bike and if you are used to ride you shouldn’t make much effort to find yourself in the no-assist zone. Another huge difference is the range. With the Ezze, 60 Km would exhaust the battery, while I made 50 k last Saturday with the e-motion and barely reached the second red light battery indicator which means that still had over 60% of battery power available.
Fully agree with Aviator’s comment on undergearing so I’m going to start the modifications process beginning by the 11T sprocket (thanks for the tip Flecc!) and once comfortable with it will probably move forward with the cassette substitution. Living in a flat place like Florida, I don’t think that range will ever become an issue.
Aviator/Flecc, any suggestion for the cassette?
Thanks and Best
John
Since you have no steep hills problem John, you need a cassette with some higher gears but no very low ones. I believe your bike has an 8 speed set, so a good option would be an 8 speed cassette with sprockets from 11 to 28 teeth, no very low gears but two higher ones. You have a choice of two:
Shimano HG 70-1: 8 speed 11-28
SRAM PG 850: 8 speed 11 to 28
If you want to be patriotic, SRAM is a US company. They bought the German Sachs company and have expanded the product range since then.
.
Shimano HG 70-1: 8 speed 11-28
SRAM PG 850: 8 speed 11 to 28
If you want to be patriotic, SRAM is a US company. They bought the German Sachs company and have expanded the product range since then.
.
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