Has anyone compared assistance of Dongled Bosch CX to derestricted Oxygen

[Julie]

Hi

Has anyone had experience with riding both a Bosch CX performance motor with a badass dongle, and an Oxygen S Cross derestricted?

I'd be interested to know how the 2 compared regarding degree of assistance and ease of maintaining speed.

I have a bike with a Bosch CX motor and badass dongle that i'm using for a commute that is 27 miles each way, i ride of turbo all the way and find it offers a lot of assistance, but i'm struggling a bit keeping my cadence high enough to get the best our of the motor, it's not a big problem and i'm hoping the more i get used to the higher cadence, the more natural it will seem.

When i was deciding which long range commuter to get i ruled out hub motors as i was worried if i got a puncture in the rear tyre i would not be able to change the innertube easily while out on the road, i have since found out about gaadi innertubes after reading about them on this forum, i wish i had known about them earlier, they seem to negate the problem of getting a flat and having a more difficult to remove rear wheel.

The Oxygen S Cross ST seem like a good commuter option, with easy derestricting. I had a short demo on one today, and while it did not blow me away, i've not ruled it out, it would be very practical for my 27 mile commute on mostly flat country roads.

I'd love to be able to try it out on my commute but i don't think that's going to be an option, so i'd love thoughts from people who have experience riding both. Can the Oxygen match the Bosch for power assistance and speed? i'm not looking for maximum top speed, but don't want to make my journey any longer than it is now, i peak at about 22MPH on the flat, which works out well.

 

[soundwave]

you want a bigger front sprocket what do you have on there atm ?

 

[Julie]

No I don’t think I do, the gearing seems fine, I never get into the highest gear.

 

[Artstu]

No I don’t think I do, the gearing seems fine, I never get into the highest gear.

but i'm struggling a bit keeping my cadence high enough to get the best our of the motor

can you not use higher gears and tap into more power?

 

[soundwave]

bigger sprocket means less candance tho the cx needs 120rpm for max assist.

 

[Woosh]

22mph on flat roads is a piece of cake for the Oxygen if you derestrict it.
Hill climbing performance is different. There, the CX should win.

 

[Julie]

Luckily there’s not many hills and they are very moderate, I have done the commute on my mothers Freego Wren and it didn’t have trouble with the hills, her bike is restricted. When I had the demo on the oxygen it didn’t seem as gutsy as the wren, but I could be wrong about that as I haven’t ridden the wren for a while

 

[Julie]

bigger sprocket means less candance tho the cx needs 120rpm for max assist.

I need to get some way to measure my cadence with the Bosch motor, I have no idea what RPM I am pedalling at, but it seems fast.

 

[soundwave]

this is with a 18t on the front.

and that was not even trying tbh.

 

[Woosh]

When I had the demo on the oxygen it didn’t seem as gutsy as the wren, but I could be wrong about that as I haven’t ridden the wren for a while

'gutsy' is usually the result of high torque, high acceleration.
the Oxygen's motor has winding code 12, designed for 24mph but at that speed, there is not much torque because the limiting factor is the controller, only rated 14A-15A.
My Woosh Rio for example has winding code 13, slower but higher torque, 21-22 mph but because the Rio is fitted with 17A controller, would feel gutsier.

 

[Nealh]

I need to get some way to measure my cadence with the Bosch motor, I have no idea what RPM I am pedalling at, but it seems fast.

Use your phone, set alarm (on loud ) for 20, 30 or 60 secs. Count your pedal full rotations until said alarm goes off. 20 secs x 3 the count, 30 secs x 2 the count or 60 secs will give your rpm.

 

[Julie]

Thanks, I’ll do that. I didn’t want to buy a new bike computer just so I can know my cadence.

 

[soundwave]

use the rear gears like a gear box hit max rpm then shift as you want a big enough front sprocket to use all the gears at the back and not just the top or bottom few gears as you will get less wear on the cassette that way.

tho this will need taking care of with indexing now and then and a clean and lubed chain.

 

[GLJoe]

i'm struggling a bit keeping my cadence high enough to get the best our of the motor,

The CX motor has a pretty wide range for power delivery. If your cadence is so low that you're not getting decent power, I'd suspect its REALLY low. Knee joint punishing low.
You really need to find out what your typical riding RMP is. Just a ballpark figure. Easy to do. Have intuvia? just watch the trip time and count for a min.

 

[Julie]

Thanks, i will check my cadence next time i ride, i don't actually have a problem with power delivery, i think it is very powerful, i just feel as though i have to pedal faster than i find natural to get the power, whereas using my mothers hub drive bike I can just pedal at a slower cadence and get full power delivery, with the hub drive i don't have keep pushing myself to pedal faster.

I'm hoping that i will just naturally start to pedal faster with more use of my bike, as i was not impressed with the Oxygen, (it is no doubt a great bike for the money, but i didn't like the riding position, it didn't feel as powerful as i'd hoped and the brakes were poor, though i could upgrade them to hydraulics so that's not a major issue) and i can't find any other hub bike that seems to tick all the boxes that i need it to.

 

[Nealh]

Thanks, i will check my cadence next time i ride, i don't actually have a problem with power delivery, i think it is very powerful, i just feel as though i have to pedal faster than i find natural to get the power, whereas using my mothers hub drive bike I can just pedal at a slower cadence and get full power delivery, with the hub drive i don't have keep pushing myself to pedal faster .

The difference between cadence and torque sensor drives. TS only gives if you are willing to give where as with cadence sensor you can get away with ghost pedalling.

 

[Deno]

the Oxygen's motor has winding code 12, designed for 24mph but at that speed, there is not much torque because the limiting factor is the controller, only rated 14A-15A.

As a comparison, on my CX powered MTB, in turbo and on a dongle, I would cruise at 27mph. The motor seems to give significant assistance if I push harder. I only have 1 bar left on my battery indicator after 17mls however. I suppose the variables are the wind resistance of the bike and the amount of energy I am inputting into the system. I am not sure of my cadence however, I suspect I prefer high cadence. I have changed to an 18t front crank with a. 11-36t rear cassette on 29" wheels and I predominantly use the 3 smallest cogs.

Considering changing to a 19t to reduce drivetrain wear incidentally, an issue that would not effect a hub drive bike as much.

 

[georgehenry]

It might sound a bit extravagant but I would seriously consider getting the Oxygen as well as the cx powered bike you already have.

Almost by accident (quite literally) I have a Yamaha PU crank drive hardtail mountain bike and an old Oxygen hub powered Emate city.

To explain I was knocked off the Oxygen and the money I got from a personal injury claim against the driver bought my Haibike as well as a NASSA sized super gaming computer for my son (thanks dad, is this a good way of getting money? Could you do it again? No, not really son!) and most of a seaside holiday, bing money gone! easy come easy go although not that easy, smashing into the side of an Audi (made a very satisfactory sized dent in it, but mostly with my body!) then sliding down the road in shorts and a T shirt.

At 27 miles one way your commute is near the limit of what is regularly possible with current battery range travelling around 20mph average.

As your commute is on mostly level roads this is the perfect environment for a good quality de restricted hub drive like The Oxygen. You will get many fewer maintenance issues with the drive train and as discussed a cadence system is more relaxing and easier to access the power with as much or importantly as little effort as you feel inclined to provide.

However crank drives feel more natural by making you work the pedals to access the power and are better hill climbers. They really excel off road where they can tackle challenging terrain.

I have now started using my old Oxygen again for my 20 mile round trip to work when I know I am going to be road riding there and back, and my Haibike when I am using a longer off road route to work (14miles) and then returning on the 10 mile road trip. The Haibike really only gets used for commuting to work and The Oxygen is used a lot at home for shopping and errand trips into town and back.

I appreciate I did not have to buy my second e-bike with saved up money but I now really appreciate having two different types of bike to use, and it is always good to have a back up bike for my commute to work if something happens to either one of them.

I actually love them both and have been commuting by e-bike to work 98%+ of the time (I check the weather and occasionally dip out if it is forecast to cane it down), a minimum of 20 miles a day for my 4 day working week since 2011 and really love it and at over 56 now doing a sedentary sitting down job really benefit from the exercise, though it is the off road ride to work that I enjoy the most.



I used to love mountain biking before getting an e-bike so mountain biking to work on a 14 mile almost completely off road route including some challenging single track is manor from haven.

Although both my bikes have been in my opinion really reliable on the whole they have both had issues that needed to be resolved and certainly the crank drive, drive train needs more attention and earlier replacement than the hub.



I bought the Haibike in March 2015 and it has covered 9668 miles so far and I have not kept count of the milage on the Oxygen but it has to be quite a bit more. What is not to like?

 

[Julie]

Thanks for the reply, I do plan on having two ebikes, I'm not sure if I should go for a hub or midrive, it's really interesting to hear from somebody who has and enjoys both.

The oxygen makes a lot of sense, and I was disappointed that I never really felt it was something I want to own, the riding position seemed uncomfortable (for me),

 

[anotherkiwi]

Thanks for the reply, I do plan on having two ebikes, I'm not sure if I should go for a hub or midrive, it's really interesting to hear from somebody who has and enjoys both.

The oxygen makes a lot of sense, and I was disappointed that I never really felt it was something I want to own, the riding position seemed uncomfortable (for me),

Comfort is very important. Both my pedelecs were free bikes that someone gave me and I converted with kits, the first one was very uncomfortable pushing me to build the second faster than I would have. I have a rear hub and a mid-drive, a little bit because I wanted to try both.

If I had to commute long distances and I had a budget I would get a Giant Amiti-E+

- local shop sells and services
- step through (designed for women yes, and older men too I think that is why they have a pink version and a gray version )
- Yamaha motor can take two chainwheels if necessary*
- mid drive because we have hills and even mountains to climb on the road around here

* the small chainwheel on an e-bike makes climbing +15% slopes a breeze and greatly increases battery range when used while transporting 2 panniers full of shopping for example