Happy pedalling all - haibike problem

Hi all,

 

I have a problem with my haibike and have searched the internet with no leads, so I hope someone hear can help.

 

Haibike sduro with yamaha 36v system 2015.

 

Battery appears to charge, lights flash as it go from empty to full.

If I test it has 2 flashing cells so up to 300 charge cycles.

Checking voltage I get 40.8v outside pins and 31.8 out to centre.

 

When I connect battery to bike the display shows all lit up when I press power and then nothing but time. It repeats this but never get to normal display.

 

Any thoughts/ tests I can do would be appreciated.

 

Confused in Herts.....

Hi all,

 

I have a problem with my haibike and have searched the internet with no leads, so I hope someone hear can help.

 

Haibike sduro with yamaha 36v system 2015.

 

Battery appears to charge, lights flash as it go from empty to full.

If I test it has 2 flashing cells so up to 300 charge cycles.

Checking voltage I get 40.8v outside pins and 31.8 out to centre.

 

When I connect battery to bike the display shows all lit up when I press power and then nothing but time. It repeats this but never get to normal display.

 

Any thoughts/ tests I can do would be appreciated.

 

Confused in Herts.....

 

Just a little update as I think 41.5 volts should be seen on 36v battery with multi meter.

So I've left battery on charge until charger and battery turned off. I know see 41.5 volts on outside and 32v on out to centre.

Oh dear, testing with a multimeter to the centre pin can fry the BMS according to our German friends on Pedelecs.de. The battery doesn't output full power to the outside pins until it has communicted with the motor etc via the centre pin. The behaviour of the display suggests the communication is not occuring. This is what happens if I switch my bike on with only my extender battery attached.

Chris

 

Thanks for replying, so how do I know if the BMS is damaged and could it be replaced if it is?

Only way I know is to try the battery on another bike. You can download a fairly comprehensive manual with diagnostic info etc by typing x94 series.pdf into google.The 'BMS' is not replaceable and is a lot more than a standard BMS as it includes communications and diagnostics. Again the guys on pedelecs.de have some answers for this including custom made communications etc. Do a search for user gamerpaddy if this sort of thing appeals. Good luck, hopefully it is not as serious, maybe clean the contact points for display and battery with contact cleaner first and be careful what you dowith the multimeter.

Chris, you've helped loads thanks. I'll check out the things to search for and will keep my probes in the case now!

Hi welcome

Keep us posted how you get on

A follow up is always nice

Update.....so I've taken the case off the battery pack to see if anything looks burnt/ broken wires. Is the blue circle a fuse, could this blow and cause the same fault?

Yes it's a fuse but I think if that was blown you would not have any power anywhere.

I will check how mine behaves without the battery tomorrow.

So just tested mine. No battery LCD doesn't light up, non Yamaha extender battery fully charged behaves exactly as you described. The system is looking for communication on the centre pin and not getting any so shuts down. If I start the system with both batteries everythin is fine until I remove the Yamaha battery then system shuts down.

Did this happen after a crash, getting wet etc or was everything OK one day and not the next?

Hi, thanks for all the info. No crashes it was a friend's which I have as wasn't being used. Told it worked and then didn't after being left.

I really would try to borrow a battery, even if it means taking it to a dealer for diagnosis. If it is the battery (I'm sure it is) then it cannot be repaired by most people.

Some real enthusiasts on Pedelecs.de (use Chrome and google translate) have reverse engineered the system and may be able to help but it's not for the faint hearted. Having said that I know what I would be doing if it was mine and buying a new battery would be last on the list!

I really would try to borrow a battery, even if it means taking it to a dealer for diagnosis. If it is the battery (I'm sure it is) then it cannot be repaired by most people.

Some real enthusiasts on Pedelecs.de (use Chrome and google translate) have reverse engineered the system and may be able to help but it's not for the faint hearted. Having said that I know what I would be doing if it was mine and buying a new battery would be last on the list!

 

Ok, so a short update......

I spent a little time checking all the wiring/ connectors as I wasn't near a dealer with no improvement to bike. Finally I packed bike up and took it to a Haibike dealer who has confirmed a battery fault. He will speak to Haibike on options but expect i need to buy another one, so any ideas whats best?

 

Original isn't an option at £750 but ive seen many others on ebay/ Amazon or other online shops for £380 - £450. Can anyone recommend or have experience for these alternatives?

 

Thanks for helping

People have had varied experiences with aftermaket batteries. There is a thread on the German forum about them at https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/erfahrungen-mit-akkus-für-yamaha-von-drittherstellern.46096/

Use google translate to help.

Another update, it might help others or maybe someone can help me more...

 

I joined the German site and have posted over there to see if others in the know respond.

 

The battery was checked at 41.5V, but when a load is applied the voltage drops. I removed battery from the case and I can test 41.5v before PCB, I can load with 4amps and voltage stays.

Anyone got thoughts on what I can look for as an error on the circuit board?

Is there a circuit for the board anywhere cos I can't find it?

 

Graham

The voltage drops when you apply a load because the battery is not turned on. It is only a small (probably designed in) current that you are measuring, as soon as you apply any load it collapses. That is why if I have had my extender battery disconnected I fit thè main battery and switch the system on before connecting the extender. If the extender has been left on the bike for charging then it is no problem.

The PCB will not turn on until communications are established with the controller.

Gamerpaddy and Cosas would seem to be the experts on the German forum.

There's a company on the net that repair batteries and charge a lot less than buying new. www.electricbikesales.co.uk. could save you some money. Type it in Google and you should find the site

Edited September 27, 20187 yr by Chris.

There's a company on the net that repair batteries and charge a lot less than buying new. www.electricbikesales.co.uk. could save you some money. Type it in Google and you should find the site

They aren't going to repair a Yamaha BMS!

They aren't going to repair a Yamaha BMS!

Why?

Why?

Because it is a closed system with its own communication protocol. The motor needs to communicate with the BMS (it is not a simple BMS like a Chinese battery ) before it will switch on. There are no spare parts available and even if there were you couldnt repair it live, as soon as yo remove power from the BMS it dies.

I saw the reverse engineering chat on pedelec.de someone had fitted another PCB/ BMS that I think gamerpaddy had made.

Chris, you know a lot about this, am I wasting my time? The cells are good/ show full 41.5v and hold this voltage for weeks. There must be value for someone in the pack even if it can't be repaired, is this correct logic?

I guess the cells in the battery are worth something to someone who could replace the BMS and use it on a non Yamaha bike. The alternative is to PM Gamerpaddy and Cosas and see what they have to say, I guess one of them will give you a schematic and program for the Arduino. Then you just need to find someone to make / fit it for you. Maybe you could get one of the battery repairers interested and they may do it as a learning exercise.

There are no spare parts available and even if there were you couldnt repair it live, as soon as yo remove power from the BMS it dies.

 

This has been mentioned a number of times for the Bosch batteries, but has it been 100% verified for the Yamaha ones?

This has been mentioned a number of times for the Bosch batteries, but has it been 100% verified for the Yamaha ones?

The Germans have seen it, it also dies if you start messing about with multimeter probes in the communications connection.

Ok, so a short update......

I spent a little time checking all the wiring/ connectors as I wasn't near a dealer with no improvement to bike. Finally I packed bike up and took it to a Haibike dealer who has confirmed a battery fault. He will speak to Haibike on options but expect i need to buy another one, so any ideas whats best?

 

Original isn't an option at £750 but ive seen many others on ebay/ Amazon or other online shops for £380 - £450. Can anyone recommend or have experience for these alternatives?

 

Thanks for helping

 

Hi, I bought an NX brand 470w Yamaha pattern battery from allbatteries.co.uk approx 2 years ago. It is still going strong and has given me no problems whatsoever.