Happy pedalling all - haibike problem

[Graham101]

I saw the reverse engineering chat on pedelec.de someone had fitted another PCB/ BMS that I think gamerpaddy had made.
Chris, you know a lot about this, am I wasting my time? The cells are good/ show full 41.5v and hold this voltage for weeks. There must be value for someone in the pack even if it can't be repaired, is this correct logic?

 

[chris_n]

I guess the cells in the battery are worth something to someone who could replace the BMS and use it on a non Yamaha bike. The alternative is to PM Gamerpaddy and Cosas and see what they have to say, I guess one of them will give you a schematic and program for the Arduino. Then you just need to find someone to make / fit it for you. Maybe you could get one of the battery repairers interested and they may do it as a learning exercise.

 

[GLJoe]

There are no spare parts available and even if there were you couldnt repair it live, as soon as yo remove power from the BMS it dies.

This has been mentioned a number of times for the Bosch batteries, but has it been 100% verified for the Yamaha ones?

 

[chris_n]

This has been mentioned a number of times for the Bosch batteries, but has it been 100% verified for the Yamaha ones?

The Germans have seen it, it also dies if you start messing about with multimeter probes in the communications connection.

 

[Izzyekerslike]

Ok, so a short update......
I spent a little time checking all the wiring/ connectors as I wasn't near a dealer with no improvement to bike. Finally I packed bike up and took it to a Haibike dealer who has confirmed a battery fault. He will speak to Haibike on options but expect i need to buy another one, so any ideas whats best?

Original isn't an option at £750 but ive seen many others on ebay/ Amazon or other online shops for £380 - £450. Can anyone recommend or have experience for these alternatives?

Thanks for helping

Hi, I bought an NX brand 470w Yamaha pattern battery from allbatteries.co.uk approx 2 years ago. It is still going strong and has given me no problems whatsoever.

 

[Graham101]

Hi all, a short update on where I am....

I had an offer to get the battery repaired by someone in Germany but I can't send it back due to the battery and 400w size.
This pushed me to by a battery, tried batteries4pro in France as it was cheapest 468watt. The battery arrived today and it's on charge, I'll post how it goes here.

 

[chris_n]

Fingers crossed.
Where in Germany does the battery need to go?

 

[Graham101]

Hi Chris

East Germany but there's just a major block on shipping these batteries due to dangerous goods category they fall into.

Battery charges but doesn't seem to work on bike, nothing the display doesn't even light all blocks like my broken battery. I checked voltage on other pins + and - and it's under 20 volts! What do I do now?

 

[chris_n]

Shame it's East Germany, I could have dropped it off if it was on my way to Austria.
I don't understand whay you mean by 'nothing the display doesn't even light all blocks like my broken battery'.
+ and - won't give a true voltage until comms are activated by the controller. If only the battery is faulty then it should behave the same as your other battery. When you had the bike at the dealers did they verify that the bike worked with another battery or did they put yours on another bike and see the same problem? If they have not had another battery on your bike then it is possible that you have a controller error.

 

[Graham101]

Hi Chris,

Keep the dropping off offer in your mind, really I just need the battery in Germany so over the water!
So to try to explain better - When i connect my faulty battery to the bike and press the on button on the controller the handlebar display light all segments then goes back to clock. Every time I press the power button the same process repeats.

If I check the +&- on old battery I see 40 volts but only 17 on new battery. Is 17 volts good it didn't change after 6hr charge or is there some other check I could do?

I will go to bike shop tomorrow to try lots of things, they tested my old battery as said it was faulty - voltage collapsed when load applied. They then fitted another battery to my bike and it worked.....I didn't see this.

Hope this explains helps you to understand better.
Graham

 

[chris_n]

If I check the +&- on old battery I see 40 volts but only 17 on new battery. Is 17 volts good it didn't change after 6hr charge or is there some other check I could do?

This voltage is just leakage, the actual voltage isn't seen until the battery is turned on. The aftermarket manufacturer won't be using the same switching mechanism (FET?) as Yamaha so can't really be compared.
The voltage will collapse when a load is applied unless the Yamaha controller has turned battery on.
As I said at the beginning be very careful what you / the shop do with these batteries, if you put too much load (more than 500mA according too our Deutche friends) on a Yamaha battery without the controller communicating you will destroy it.
If you look at pages 5 and 6 of the thread on Pedelecs.de that you posted on there are a lot of comments on there about this issue particularly from Gamerpaddy.
It may pay to make the shop aware of these issues before they potentially damage anything else.

It is worth bearing in mind that the reason these batteries go into these faults in the first place is a safety mechanism that is preventing a potential battery fire in the first instance. I think it is highly unlikely that one of these batteries will develop a fatal fault without there being a problem elsewhere on the bike unless someone is 'testing something'!

 

[Graham101]

Chris,

Thanks for the info (again) and warning. The thing is the battery hasn't worked out of the box, showed full charge on lamp when button pressed but didn't work when connected.

2nd update....
The company has just told be me

I just asked our Product manager and he told me that the firmware of the laptop is too new relative to the battery

If you want to send it back for a refund let us know

Don't understand reply but this puts me back to step 1. How do I send it back!
Will call allbatteries and check their battery works on 2015 bike and order there.

Graham

 

[chris_n]

Thanks for the info (again) and warning. The thing is the battery hasn't worked out of the box, showed full charge on lamp when button pressed but didn't work when connected.

That is what I was talking about with the statement 'It is worth bearing in mind that the reason these batteries go into these faults in the first place is a safety mechanism that is preventing a potential battery fire in the first instance. I think it is highly unlikely that one of these batteries will develop a fatal fault without there being a problem elsewhere on the bike unless someone is 'testing something'!'
The fault could be on the bike, you haven't seen it run with another battery, the shop may not have actually tried another battery even though they say they have. Hopefully they have and can demonstrate that then you can have a trip France to take the battery back and pop into Germany to get the original battery repaired

 

[Graham101]

Ha Ha call it a battery road trip.....

No fiddling done so on new battery just check voltage no load applied. I will go to shop and carefully swap batteries about. No loads will be applied unless the bike decides to jump into life. This should prove if my bikes good and if new battery works on another bike.
Just for my info, do you think my broken battery shows 40 volts because something's damaged/ different controls?

 

[chris_n]

Different controls, mine normally shows somewhere between 38 and 41 but if you leave the multimeter connected it will slowly drop. As soon as I switch the bike on it will go to 42.x and stay there. I don't believe there is anything wrong with your original cells, just the BMS / safety system.
Hope it goes well, let us know the outcome.

 

[Graham101]

Saturday update.......

Bike, 2 batteries and control display driven to bike shop.
1- the new battery and my display didn't work on shop 2017 model haibike
2- shop battery and my display on shop 2017 model haibike switched on but showed error. Expect newer version display needed
3- shop battery and my display on my haibike switched on and no error. I didn't ride as bike had no wheel and raining.

This makes me think that my bike and display are good and the battery is the issue. Does this make sense?
So I get a good battery and my bike should work again....

@Chris when do you go to Austria ?

Graham

 

[chris_n]

@Chris when do you go to Austria ?

Not until December 1st. I just got back!

 

[Graham101]

Update....

My bike lives again, another battery purchased arrived today and when plugged in the display works. Quick test ride and all looks promising......faulty battery to blame fromFrance

 

[chris_n]

Update....

My bike lives again, another battery purchased arrived today and when plugged in the display works. Quick test ride and all looks promising......faulty battery to blame fromFrance

Which battery did you end up buying?

 

[Graham101]

Chris, I got a bargain on the attached item from an internet shop, they sell items returned. It was less than £250 so a bargain if it keeps working.

The original battery was taken to Jimmy who discovered it wasn't cost effective for him to look to fix it.

Graham