Greenway Cross City

[redcup1999]

I thought I would start a review thread for the Greenway Cross City bike.

The bike features a Bafang Maxdrive mid motor rated at 250 watts nominal and a 10.4Ah battery in an SF-06 casing.

Trying to order from the Greenwaycycles website didn't get me very far.
In the end I stepped up and ordered from EBay - with Topcashback and AMEX cashback the price will probably work out about £20 more than ordering at the advertised price on the Website.

The bike arrived within 48 hours of ordering - delivered by DPD with an excellent delivery tracking system that told me where on the route the driver was and when he was likely to be with me.

Box Markings:


Box Contents - fairly well packed, but the usual issues with bottom of fork poking out the bottom of the box and outer part of wheel / brake disc mashed up against the side of the box:


Contents of the box removed:


Nice graphics:

Awful badge - what were they thinking?!

9 Speed cassette:

Shimano BR-M355 Hydraulic Disc Brakes:


Bafang Motor Markings:


More Graphics (a bit cheaper looking):

 

[redcup1999]

Front fork:


Bafang Motor:


Gearchange Sensor located on the Gear Cable:


Cables disappearing into the downtube:

 

[redcup1999]

Here's the bike pretty much assembled with the seat post set to the lowest height as per the markings on the seat post. The seat post will drop lower into the tube (by maybe 2 inched) without being cut.



I was a bit concerned whether it would fit me OK as I am only 5ft6 with a 30 inch inseam.

I haven't ridden the bike yet - but it feels about right with the setup as in the photo.

The reach may be a touch long, but I have measured the stem at 100mm, so there is scope to reduce that to 80mm or 70mm if it turns out to be a problem.

Tyres:
The tubes are fitted with a type of valve I have not come across before - "Woods" or "Dunlop" I believe they are called. Not a problem - a presta pump fits them - but it did have me a bit puzzled.

The tyres are by Kenda and have a "Cyclo Cross" type of tread. They have a reflective band around them which means that the reflectors attached to the wheel spokes may be leaglly removed in the UK.

Bell:
None supplied!

Manuals:
Generic Greenway EBike manual which is of limited use
SR Suntour Forks Manual
Phylion Battery Manual

Pedals:
Standard looking pedals supplied, A mixture of Plastic / Alloy - not as bad as some!

 

[Ultrafunkula]

Have you been out to play on the Greenway yet Redcup?
I know the weather is pretty awful.
You'll have to update us with your views of the bike,vids etc. As soon as you get out there.

 

[redcup1999]

Not had a chance yet - weather is shocking and I don't want to get the nice shiny bike all dirty! I'm using the Tornado to commute on for now. I had a quick go in the lounge(!) so I know that the motor is working OK

Hopefully it will be dry enough tomorrow and I will be able to get some videos and pictures up as well as comparisons with the Tornado & Crossfire-e

 

[Woosh]

I reckon it needs a 15AH battery to do it justice.

 

[redcup1999]

I reckon it needs a 15AH battery to do it justice.

I agree. I've been trying to find a 14.5Ah + battery in an SF06 case at a reasonable price, but without much luck. Phylion do claim to make them with Panasonic / Samsung cells - i just need to find a supplier.

One of the German bikes does have a 48V pack in an SF-06 case though - price is a bit much :-(

 

[Woosh]

48V 12AH would be good for speed/weight/capacity

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Please could you tell us what markings are on the motor? Is it 250w 48v?

 

[redcup1999]

Please could you tell us what markings are on the motor? Is it 250w 48v?

As per the photo in the 1st post:

MMG33.350
36V250W14A
1511090008

I believe this equates to this product (but I could be wrong):
http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/motor/mm-g330250.html

MMG330.350 lists Voltage as 36/43/48V.

I would probably stick with 36V anyway, even if 48V is possible.

My assumption is that it is the same motor as the 350W one but software limited in the controller to 250W by means of reduced current (14A instead of 20A).

 

[redcup1999]

This thread, however suggests that 36V may be "hardcoded" into the controller (unless the controller auto detects voltage and populates the field on screen depending on the battery connected):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=85918&p=1259716&hilit=+max+drive#p1259716

 

[Ultrafunkula]

As per the photo in the 1st post:

MMG33.350
36V250W14A
1511090008

I believe this equates to this product (but I could be wrong):
http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/motor/mm-g330250.html

MMG330.350 lists Voltage as 36/43/48V.

I would probably stick with 36V anyway, even if 48V is possible.

My assumption is that it is the same motor as the 350W one but software limited in the controller to 250W by means of reduced current (14A instead of 20A).

Going from 250w to 350w is by way of programming as per endless sphere quote...
, increasing the power output to 350 should be doable by increasing "keep current" from 30% to 42%.
Controller can take 48v it's just that it's 36v to make it legal ,48v ups cadence and speed above the legal limit, 118 rpm instead of the 90 odd. as per the "S" Pedelec version of the Max Drive is 48v

 

[redcup1999]

First Shake down ride done.

Overall impressions:
Bike is comfortable to ride - geomtery is fine for me at 5ft6 (even if I need to put the saddle up a bit).
Motor is very quiet and smooth.
Motor pulls well from a standing start.
Very easy to pedal over the 25kmh cutoff.
Gear change sensor works to cut power when changing gear - this is nice on the flat, but when stomping on the pedals to get up a hill the 1 second or so cut in power during the change is a tad annoying - I just need to adjust my riding style compared to a hub drive bike.

Setup problems:
1) Gears need tweaking
2) Front brake is making one hell of a rattle noise when not applied and is binding slightly

Nothing unexpected really.

I will post up a video on my next ride, once I've sorted out the setup.

 

[Ultrafunkula]

Setup problems:
1) Gears need tweaking
2) Front brake is making one hell of a rattle noise when not applied and is binding slightly

Nothing unexpected really.

I will post up a video on my next ride, once I've sorted out the setup.

View attachment 17581
View attachment 17582[/QUOTE]
My gears needed a tweak also the front and rear brakes as slight binding , easy fixed , is your disc or caliper loose as no way it should rattle

 

[Woosh]

Gear change sensor works to cut power when changing gear - this is nice on the flat, but when stomping on the pedals to get up a hill the 1 second or so cut in power during the change is a tad annoying - I just need to adjust my riding style compared to a hub drive bike.

Yes, I found it annoying when the off time is longer than necessary.
Instead of spending £50 on a gear sensor (or £33 on a copy), I think the money is better spent on a better, slicker derailleur.

 

[cyclebuddy]

2) Front brake is making one hell of a rattle noise when not applied and is binding slightly

My front brake calliper was abrading: Because of the larger 180 disc, they've used spacer blocks which could twist a bit/be a bit loose... just a quick adjustment with a hex key.

 

[redcup1999]

My front brake calliper was abrading: Because of the larger 180 disc, they've used spacer blocks which could twist a bit/be a bit loose... just a quick adjustment with a hex key.

Yes - this is exactly what is happening. The spacer block is not the highest quality - when tighenting up the caliper bolts the whole caliper twists as it presses against the spacer. I think it's going to take a bit of sorting out - I may even have to contact them to send me out another spacer as I've had a few goes but not got it spot on yet.

 

[redcup1999]

Yes, I found it annoying when the off time is longer than necessary.
Instead of spending £50 on a gear sensor (or £33 on a copy), I think the money is better spent on a better, slicker derailleur.

Hopefully I will get used to it.

It may also be that this is a configurable parameter in the motor setup - to me it feels like the power cut is twice as long as it needs to be.

 

[cyclebuddy]

Yes - this is exactly what is happening. The spacer block is not the highest quality - when tighenting up the caliper bolts the whole caliper twists as it presses against the spacer. I think it's going to take a bit of sorting out - I may even have to contact them to send me out another spacer as I've had a few goes but not got it spot on yet.

I find the solid aluminium spacer blocks to be fine. There is by necessity some lateral/twist movement. If you turn the bike upside down, loosen the caliper hex bolts, and then spin the wheel, it's easy to find the sweet spot where the brakes don't bind. A quick squeeze on the brake lever can also help centre the caliper over the disc before then tightening those bolts.

 

[redcup1999]

First proper ride done - 18.8 miles traveled, 1688 feet climbed.
50% battery remaining.

Really enjoyed the ride.

The overall cycling experience was somewhere between the Kudos Tornado and the Carrera Crossfire-e:
the Tornado is PAS / Throttle only with a full power throttle. Spinning the pedals on PAS level 5 gives loads of power from the motor, but not necessarily a sense of "normal" cycling - in many ways it's too "easy" on PAS 5 - great for commuting (or if you have a knee / ankle problem), but not what I would look for as someone who considers themselves to be a keen (if overweight) cyclist. PAS takes a good full revolution of the pedals to make the motor kick in (note that I am running with a 5 pole PAS sensor, rather than the original that came with the bike - the original sensor is probably more responsive).

The Crossfire-e has an excellent Torques sensing system that gives more power proportional to how hard you push on the pedals. In Eco Mode you can still get full assist by pushing really hard on the pedals. In Sport mode, you simply don't need to push as hard on the pedals to get full assist.

The Greenway is between the two: the assist is instant when the pedals are turned thanks to the torque sensor, but does not seem to give lots of extra power from the motor if you push harder.

I have done the route on all three bikes,so for the sake of comparison:
1) Crossfire-e 1hr:25mins:27seconds moving time
2) Kudos Tornado: 1hr:24mins:04 seconds moving time
3) Greenway Cross City: 1hr:19mins:17seconds moving time

I am 45 years old, and weigh more than I should, but had lost 1 stone between 1) and 3) above as well as improved fitness.

So the Greenway has proved itself as the fastest bike in my hands, right?
Well... I had always understood that crank drives are king for Hill Climbing, but let's take a look at the most challenging Strava segment where I would expect the MaxDrive to shine:


This segment lasts for 2.1miles and climbs 504 feet. Maximum gradient is 15%.

The Greenway covered this segment in 10 mins 40 seconds. Very creditable.
However the Crossfire-e did it in 9 mins 05 seconds.
The Tornado in 9 mins 01 seconds.
(And remember I was one stone heavier when I did it on the Crossfire-e compared to the Greenway!).

So - what's going on?

By this point I had covered around 11 miles on assist level 3. For the hill, I pushed assist level up to 5, expecting to shoot up the hill and destroy the times of both the Crossfire and the Kudos.

At the bottom of the hill, the display was showing 80% battery remaining. As I ascended the battery remaining dropped and dropped and dropped. To one bar - flashing. My assumption is that this was caused by voltage sag. By the time I got home (some 8 miles later) battery remaining showed as 50%. I suspect I would have been quicker on assist level 3.

Now this could just be because the battery is new and needs a few charge cycles to be conditioned.

I'd be interested to her the thoughts of others who own the bike.

BTW - I am very happy with the Greenway!