Going...Going...Gatso's GONE!!!

[Blew it]

The final debate and vote by Swindon Borough Council this evening has now resulted in the end of the safety camera partnership. Our five Gatso's are history. I can't believe that drab dreary old Swindon has entered the history books as the first authority to ditch the cameras.

The slightly miffed local constabulary has issued a warning "Ah yes, but we will be increasing the use of mobile cameras".. yeah right!!. An on-going blitz of traffic speed in the town consists of a rather pretty WPC assisted by a Blunketts bobby with a hand held radar gun, two more further up the road pull in the offenders. Do they get booked, prosecuted, lose points?. Nope, just a stern warning to slow down!!.

We have a not unusual situation in Swindon, the ruling council sitting on the opposite side of the House to our two MP's. As you can imagine the sparks fly on a pretty regular basis. Many months ago the councillors demanded the revenue from the cameras be returned to the borough by HMG, which of course was refused. The borough then declared the road markings at the camera sites were incorrect and covered the cameras with "not in use" hoods, and they've been that way ever since.

Am I bothered? no, I don't speed when driving my car, but I do tend to crack on a bit when riding the Wisper.

Regards

Bob

 

[HarryB]

I think that Swindon are right that the effectiveness of speed cameras have been overstated. It is not just that they have a limited impact on safety it is more that resources have been moved away from traditional forms of road policing. The traditional traffic policeman is far more effective, but of course more costly, and in this country road safety has a very low priority.

An example this morning illustrates how well speed cameras work. A BMW comes off the the lights accelerating quickly to 50-60mph (and we are talking about a built up area) screams past 6 cyclists before neatly braking for the camera and then up again to 50mph. The driver knows what he is doing and if he even suspected an unmarked police car was in the vicinity wouldn't do it. We have all experienced similar situations.

I am always amazed at the number of campaign groups, cycling included that campaign for speed cameras but never for traditional road policing - it doesn't take a genius to work out what would be safer for us.

 

[flecc]

I also agree that the cameras are ineffective, and have been baffled why the authorities can't read the facts. Over the period of most rapid expansion of the cameras the death rate on our roads remained constant and even rose one of those years, yet still they insisted the cameras saved lives.

As Hal says, roaming police patrol cars, marked or unmarked, are a far greater deterrent and universally feared by drivers.

That's not to say that technology can't work well, it can, but only if it's the right sort. For example, automatic radio transmitted speed limiting to each area limit right across the country would wipe out speeding completely, and the cost per vehicle would be quite small. This in turn would enable the complete removal of speed humps and the problems they cause for emergency services, buses and road maintenance, plus saving money. Swapping the speed cameras for number plate reading ones coupled with national records data would also virtually eliminate driving without a licence or insurance.

A pity that our legislators don't have the imagination and investment courage to take these more effective steps.
.

 

[HarryB]

I also agree that the cameras are ineffective, and have been baffled why the authorities can't read the facts. Over the period of most rapid expansion of the cameras the death rate on our roads remained constant and even rose one of those years, yet still they insisted the cameras saved lives.

As Hal says, roaming police patrol cars, marked or unmarked, are a far greater deterrent and universally feared by drivers.

That's not to say that technology can't work well, it can, but only if it's the right sort. For example, automatic radio transmitted speed limiting to each area limit right across the country would wipe out speeding completely, and the cost per vehicle would be quite small. This in turn would enable the complete removal of speed humps and the problems they cause for emergency services, buses and road maintenance, plus saving money. Swapping the speed cameras for number plate reading ones coupled with national records data would also virtually eliminate driving without a licence or insurance.

A pity that our legislators don't have the imagination and investment courage to take these more effective steps.
.

Here is another idea (as used in Europe). Speed sensitive traffic lights - approach these above the posted speed limit and they turn red on you. Speeding becomes a waste of time unless you want to run red lights all the time (is there anybody who objects to red light cameras?). Would be cheap and easy to install on many traffic lights. Of course there is no revenue in this but is such a simple idea that it makes you wonder if the government has become addicted to the income generated by speed cameras.

 

[Blew it]

Slough?

I'm certain there was a "linked lights" system on the approach to Slough many years ago, Providing you didn't exceed 30 MPH, as you approached each junction the lights changed to green. Go too fast ( or too slow) and you had to stop and wait for the full sequence. I'm sure it was on the old A4.

 

[flecc]

There are indeed linked lights in some areas which reward correct steady speeds, and some London zones are configured in this way. Giving bus drivers an override facility does mess things up at times though.

I have read about those approach speed lights Hal, sounds a good idea.

A variation could be lights additional to normal traffic lights that change to red when sensors determined someone was travelling above the limit. With the added refinement of some of them having a camera that snaps those who ignore the lights by failing to stop at them, it would be very effective.

There's no doubt there are far better road safety technologies than fixed location speed cameras.
.

 

[Engineer]

"A variation could be lights additional to normal traffic lights that change to red when sensors determined someone was travelling above the limit. With the added refinement of some of them having a camera that snaps those who ignore the lights by failing to stop at them, it would be very effective."

I spent a few months working on the traffic lights in central London and one feature I noticed was:-
On some roads around London, where a major road approaches a set of lights and traffic could be travelling around 70mph, loops under the road send a command signal to the traffic light controller to hold the amber phase several seconds longer than would be the case for slower moving vehicles.
So this technology is already around as anyone in the capital who has been snapped by a "Red light Camera" can testify.

John

 

[flecc]

So this technology is already around as anyone in the capital who has been snapped by a "Red light Camera" can testify.

John

Indeed John, we have the red light cameras in my area on Purley Way. What seems to be needed is pulling the technologies together and using them not only more imaginatively, but also with greater consistency.

The present inconsistency of one 30 mph area Gatso resulting in a ticket at 34 mph while in another 30 mph area it's necessary to exceed 40 mph or more to get the same is the sort of thing that breeds mistrust of all these technologies. They have to be administered fairly and be seen to be fair.
.

 

[Phil the drill]

In our area we have several of the flashing '30 mph' signs that flash up in front of anyone exceeding the limit in an urban area. I have generally noticed that drivers respond much better to these than you might expect. I think that is because quite a lot of people speed unintentionally when they enter these areas from a de-restricted road. Certainly folks are far more receptive to these. Whilst speed can be a problem I think we place too much emphasis on speed alone. Tail-gating, inside overtaking, overtaking on blind bends, just before crest of hills, cutting folks up on roundabouts, skipping lights, etc., are rife and never caught on speed cameras. The number of people I still see on mobiles while driving (I see several EVERY day) drives me nuts too. Cameras won't stop them either. I think almost all of the above contribute more to most accidents than just speed alone. Bring back proper road policing and if you ditch spending on cameras to fund it, then g'ud on yer!

Phil

 

[Blew it]

Latest!

The decision to withdraw from the Safety Camera Partnership on Wednesday evening has ruffled a few feathers amongst the road safety crowd. The local police are not taking it lying down though, with all manner of blustering and threats.

The police in Swindon are not held in particularly high esteem, having demonstrated some incredibly insensative soft targeting recently. In one incident, a 4 year old lad playing cops and robbers with his bud, pointed his blue and yellow toy gun at a passing patrol car, The two officers insisted the father should destroy the "weapon" in front of the heartbroken lad, obviously in tears by then. Two days later, a three year old lass was "arrested" for driving her little pink Barbie car on the pavement outside her home. It's maximum possible speed was 1.5 MPH!.

This month, a retired gentleman will appear in court charged with possessing a dangerous weapon in public. For two hours, the local yobs had been bombarding his house with rocks. Fed up with the police non response to his 999 call, he picked up an old chair leg and chased the youths off...just as the police arrived. The WPC ignored the fleeing kids, and when backup (?) arrived, the four officers arrested and charged the old gent.

The arithmatic of the camera partnership is simple. Swindon Borough Council pay HMG £400,000 P/A to have the 5 cameras, of this, £73,000 is returned to SBC for road safety use, the revenue from the cameras going to the Treasury. SBC, in there wisdom, decided there were more effective ways of spending our Council Tax, including of course the flashing advisory signs decribed by Phil above.

One thing I found rather funny, on Thursday evening, Points West TV showed one of the cameras in their report on the issue. You could clearly see it was the same one that was recently fire-bombed!!.

Now, lets see if I can post this before Virgin broadband falls over... again.

All the best

Bob

 

[Mussels]

On some roads around London, where a major road approaches a set of lights and traffic could be travelling around 70mph, loops under the road send a command signal to the traffic light controller to hold the amber phase several seconds longer than would be the case for slower moving vehicles.
So this technology is already around as anyone in the capital who has been snapped by a "Red light Camera" can testify.

John

This may explain why recently the Amber seems to be much shorter than I expect and I end up going through on red. Not a very good safety aid then, bring back consistancy please.

 

[Hooligooner]

I'm certain there was a "linked lights" system on the approach to Slough many years ago, Providing you didn't exceed 30 MPH, as you approached each junction the lights changed to green. Go too fast ( or too slow) and you had to stop and wait for the full sequence. I'm sure it was on the old A4.

I remember my ol' Dad always used to try to drive from Taplow to Slough without ever changing out of third down this stretch.