Giant Suede

[Peter Collinge]

Hi my name is Peter. I live in South Wales not far from Cardiff. I want to get in touch with anyone who ownes a Giant Suede electric bicycle to discuss a problem that I am having with my Bicycle. My email address is peter.collinge@tiscali.co.uk

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

Giant suede problem?
Either
chain hopping off unexpectedly
or
kickstand dropping off - unexpectedly

Have you done the POD mod yet?

Andrew

 

[Silver_Rover]

Andrew

What's the POD mod ?

Ken

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

The Giant Suede in the UK is Pedlec only. The sensor wires coming off the crank sensor can be shorted by a throttle or push button on the handlebar.

Intercept and tee into the two wires coming from the pedal sensor. Don`t cut them- just tee into them. Run the tee wires up to your handlebars and install a switch that closes on push.

To get to all this wiring and the controller area, you need a long cross head screwdriver in order to loosen the plastic carapace below the battery.

The sensor wires are thin, but they are the only wires coming from the crank.. I have not investigated further but it seems as if the bike controller detects whether the crank sensor is there or not. Leave it in circuit and just short the circuit with a switch or throttle.

You get power on demand on the switch with the pedelec function still working as normal.. If you use the switch loads, then your range drops

I would have chopped in the Suede by now if I hadn`t put this modification in. Pedelec is a rubbish concept in my commute. Every ebike should have a throttle.

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

Did you get your problem sorted out?

 

[flecc]

.

Pedelec is a rubbish concept in my commute. Every ebike should have a throttle.

Never a truer word written in my view Andrew. If pedelec is ever enforced in this country I won't be riding e-bikes any more.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Pedelec Bad?

Andrew, Flecc - you both have me confused.

I have the Twist, which is pedelec only, and am very happy with it. I dont think (although admittedly havent tried) I would want non-pedelec, as riding the bike is the only exercise I get so if I didnt pedal, then I think I would feel a bit guilty (but I dont know why ).

The only reason I can see for having a throttle on an e-bike is if I have injured my leg and cant pedal. If I didnt want to pedal at all ever, then I wouldnt buy an e-bike, I'd buy a scooter.

What is it I am missing here, what is so good about non-pedelec?

What do you see as the difference between a throttle controlled machine that you dont pedal and a scooter?



John

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

Andrew, Flecc - you both have me confused.

I have the Twist, which is pedelec only, and am very happy with it. I don't think (although admittedly haven't tried) I would want non-pedelec, as riding the bike is the only exercise I get so if I didn't pedal, then I think I would feel a bit guilty (but I don't know why ).

The only reason I can see for having a throttle on an e-bike is if I have injured my leg and cant pedal. If I didnt want to pedal at all ever, then I wouldnt buy an e-bike, I'd buy a scooter.

What is it I am missing here, what is so good about non-pedelec?

What do you see as the difference between a throttle controlled machine that you dont pedal and a scooter?



John

Try a bike with a throttle and you might change your mind.,..
It all depends on why you use your bike.

I save money on commuting.

I only have one car (dual fuel) in my family

I am pretty lazy some dark wet mornings but still feel the need to pedal to look reasonably "cool" and not like some dodgy European on a "chicken chaser" moped

Pedlec on the Suede requires what feels like 50:50 and I just don`t feel I want to contribute that sort of energy to the relationship.

My route to work goes over hills that suits POD

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I dont think (although admittedly havent tried) I would want non-pedelec, as riding the bike is the only exercise I get

Very well put John, I concur. I'm also perfectly happy with my Giant Twist Comfort and this is one reason why. If I'd done yesterdays 19.5 mile journey from Reading on a bike with the option to not have to pedal, I suspect I wouldn't have got anywhere near as much excercise as I did. If I wanted a motorbike, I'd buy a proper one. The moral of the story is peoples preferences differ. If there's changes in the law to be made with regards to electric assist bikes in the UK, I think upping the max assisted speed to 20 mph and increasing the maximum motor power to 750 Watts (1 HP - fair and square with no room for manufacturer induced measurement latitude) would be the changes I'd most want. The only problem I could forsee with this would be that crank motor powered bikes would then need heavy duty drivetrain components capable of handling the power reliably.

I think the issue of hill climbing with the Suede isn't so much one of whether the power is throttled or controlled with a torque or motion sensor but is simply one of poor motor performance across the speed ranges required. It received quite poor reports from AtoB in terms of performance.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Andrew - I think you're right. I'd have to try one to see and feel the differences. I honestly dont know what the diffs are between the pedelec Twist and the pedelec Suede, if any, but I have to say, I love the fact that its pedelec, I think its one of the best things about the bike!

I am in a very similar position to you I think, except I may not have quite as many hills (Stockport as opposed to Derbyshire next door-ish), but I do have a good few. On the Twist, I have never met a hill of any incline I have had to get out of my seat for (yet).

I also use my bike for the commute (in fact its the reason I bought it), now down to 10.5 miles each way. I agree that e-bikes should be seen as an alternative to the car too, and so I should agree with you on the reasons for throttles. Its just that I am also counting the gym fees I am not paying too as a part of the savings I am making, which maybe I couldnt do if I had a throttle.

John

 

[JohnInStockie]

If there's changes in the law to be made with regards to electric assist bikes in the UK, I think upping the max assisted speed to 20 mph and increasing the maximum motor power to 750 Watts (1 HP - fair and square with no room for manufacturer induced measurement latitude) would be the changes I'd most want.

That sounds wonderful Kiwi, but I think I would stay happy with the 250 watts (although I think ours are only 186W?) and the 20mph. I think if I had 750W then, well lets just say I probably wouldnt put that much effort in......at all

John

 

[andrewelectricbike1]

I should really put more effort into pedalling. But instead I put another 9ah on the rack and cruise to work with a little aerobic leg moving. The up side is that I stopped smoking at the same time because the wind kept blowing out my matches. I looked at the Giant site and discovered a "new" twist with lion and hub!? Is that what you use?

 

[JohnInStockie]

lol - plus where could you put the ashtray...

Nah, it the 2006 version 'Giant Twist Comfort GTS', crank drive jobby, no longer in production but still a few about. Its a nice bike, but I have 'limited' experience of e-bikes (as in 1!!).

Its got 2 isues for me.
1) Its almost impossible to get the bike to go much faster than about 18 mph without your legs going like a whisk, and thats because you cannot put on a bigger front cog, nor a smaller rear one.

2) The biggest let down, is the battery, its only 6.5Ah which means that range is limited to about 16-17 miles.

Apart from that its fine really.

 

[Flying Kiwi]

I think I would stay happy with the 250 watts (although I think ours are only 186W?) and the 20mph. I think if I had 750W then, well lets just say I probably wouldnt put that much effort in......at all

I guess what I'm wanting is something that'll go up hills faster and although the Twist will go up even the steepest, its 240 Watt motor (check your workshop manual page 1-1 if you want to confirm that) doesn't allow this to be done quickly enough. Maybe it's just that I was overtaken for the first time going up a hill by a lycra clad cyclist on a bike yesterday (and I couldn't catch up on the flat either - without my legs going into egg beater mode, roll on that 16T rear sprocket)

 

[JohnInStockie]

lycra clad cyclists - tell me about it, Ive been overtaken by a good few now.

Its funny though, when I was at the lights this morning, an MTB'er thought they would hop around me on the pavement to get in front of me as I'm bound to be going slow on my antique dutch looking bike. Heh heh heh. Lets just say he spent the next mile getting close and then I'd move off a bit, get close again, and then I'd move off again.

By the time we got to the next lights I could see the redness of his face, heh heh.

John

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

What good about non-pedelec?

Andrew, Flecc - you both have me confused.

I have the Twist, which is pedelec only, and am very happy with it. I dont think (although admittedly havent tried) I would want non-pedelec, as riding the bike is the only exercise I get so if I didnt pedal, then I think I would feel a bit guilty (but I dont know why ).

The only reason I can see for having a throttle on an e-bike is if I have injured my leg and cant pedal. If I didnt want to pedal at all ever, then I wouldnt buy an e-bike, I'd buy a scooter.

What is it I am missing here, what is so good about non-pedelec?

What do you see as the difference between a throttle controlled machine that you dont pedal and a scooter?



John

When you get to 78 y.o. you'll understand (and be gratful for the bonus years).
Peter

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

The dream bike law!

If there's changes in the law to be made with regards to electric assist bikes in the UK, I think upping the max assisted speed to 20 mph and increasing the maximum motor power to 750 Watts (1 HP - fair and square with no room for manufacturer induced measurement latitude) would be the changes I'd most want. The only problem I could forsee with this would be that crank motor powered bikes would then need heavy duty drivetrain components capable of handling the power reliably.

Great for a ride around the block.
Who's going to invent and provide the battery for this wonder machine that gets one to work?
Peter

 

[Flying Kiwi]

Great for a ride around the block.
Who's going to invent and provide the battery for this wonder machine that gets one to work?
Peter

I was thinking the increased power would be nice specifically for hill climbing, there's little need on the flat and I often go in Eco or power off mode on the flat anyway. The 750 Watt rating is only the maximum power that the motor puts out, this doesn't mean it has to draw that much all the time. When lightly loaded it'd draw as much as currently legal in the UK models or less. Battery usage would only be markedly different if you chose to use that extra power (eg to go up hills as fast as possible). There are plenty of 'high power' machines in the USA (I'm not speculating whether this is more associated with rider weight/loading or hilly terrain ) but if ridden right they still get decent range.

 

[Silver_Rover]

Andrew

Many thanks for publishing details of your POD mod for the Suede. I will certainly consider installing this on my bike if only as an emergency get you home device in case of chain failure.

Ken

 

[flecc]

Its almost impossible to get the bike to go much faster than about 18 mph without your legs going like a whisk, and thats because you cannot put on a bigger front cog, nor a smaller rear one.

This answers not only the above but also why I prefer throttles.

Cadence is a matter of fitness John. The generally accepted most efficient cadence is around 90, and you would really call that going like a whisk! But with enough fitness you discover the efficiency of higher cadences and will be comfortable with higher speeds. On my SRAM P5 twist with 17 tooth rear sprocket I can pedal to as much as 26 mph at the limit and and I'm happy to ride on the flat for a few miles at 18 mph when conditions are favourable.

Since the twist only makes a real contribution of power at very low cadences, it doesn't let a fully fit rider benefit from efficient pedalling combined with power. With a throttle I can dictate when and how I get power, not some Panasonic designer who may know nothing of cycling efficiency and has designed only for one class of user.
.