Gardener choosing a bike for pulling a trailer around a city

Hi everyone, I've been browsing this forum in recent days and it seems like there are a lot of friendly people with helpful information and experience to share so I thought perhaps people would have some useful perspectives on what sort of bike would suit my needs.

 

Background is I'm a gardener working in London and I do nearly all of my work by bike and when I very occasionally need a van I rent one for the day. I've occasionally considered getting a van but doing everything by bike is better for the planet, in London usually quicker, cheaper running costs, and also avoid endless issues with parking and LNTs.

 

I bring all my tools with me on a Burley Travoy trailer:

 

very manoeuvrable and can take a decent load and copes well with longer tools. I'm currently dragging it around with my 1970s Carlton Gran Tour which is in desperate need of some TLC. I had been thinking about spending a load of money on new wheels, deraileur, brakes, etc. and then had started to wonder about converting it (looking at a swytch kit).

 

Then I thought perhaps I'd be better off just getting an Ebike and the slowly doing up the Carlton as a relaxed project, on the cheap by buying used parts and keeping it unnelectrified (or perhaps converting it with a kit from Woosh after the rest of the bike is sorted out). As I use my bike for work almost every day it would be useful to have two for when something goes wrong with one

 

I started off looking at cross frame electric bikes, somewhat in a similar vein to my old Carlton tourer but slowly I've been drawn to the idea of a folder. It would be possible for me to store an extra folder in my flat (even though I understand they don't fold down that small) and when I'm working I wouldn't need to lock it to a lamp post outside my clients' houses as I doubt it is bulkier or heavier than a fully loaded trailer which I regularly carry through clients houses to their back garden. It also strikes me that although a folder doesn't look ideal for pulling a load at first glance, it seems to me that the smaller wheel size would in fact be better at accelerating when the traffic lights turn green and pulling a load up hills (my two main motivations for wanting to electrify). It would also have the added advantage of having a pannier rack low enough to have panniers that don't interfere with the trailer which would be very useful.

 

I'm not interested in going especially fast, I'm 5'10 and a little over 12 stone, a full trailer load (including trailer) would be about 32kg but most often more like 20kg or so, plus perhaps a few kg in the pannier. I would ideally want something with a pretty decent range (comfortably doing above 20 miles with a load and some hills), and torque sensor.

 

I was looking at a Wisper 806 with a larger battery and torque sensor but then I saw that Tern makes bikes that seem more specifically designed for moving cargo on a small electric bike.

 

Are there any other good options I've overlooked? Does a folder (or at least something with 20" wheels) make sense for my use case? Also, does anybody body have any advice about buying second hand. I've seen some whispers in what seem to be near mint condition on eBay for considerably less than they cost new. Presumably it might not be possible to transfer the warranty but if you're saving ~£800 it seems like that may well cover anything that might go wrong? And if nothing goes wrong you're laughing.

 

Anyway, this post is already turning into an essay so I'll just finish by saying I'd be very interested in anybodies take on what sort of bike I should go for.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/40-off-wisper-show-ex-demo-bikes.46658/

 

You might be too late.....

I bring all my tools with me on a Burley Travoy trailer:

 

My long gardening tools are too long for that trailer, I use a Homcom... which I see now has suspension for the same price I paid. Very irritating!

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOMCOM-Trailer-Features-Bicycle-Suspension/dp/B0CS8V9LP8/

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/40-off-wisper-show-ex-demo-bikes.46658/

 

You might be too late.....

 

I saw the the 806 had already been snapped up. Tempted by the 705T but definitely think I would prefer a folder

My long gardening tools are too long for that trailer, I use a Homcom... which I see now has suspension for the same price I paid. Very irritating!

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HOMCOM-Trailer-Features-Bicycle-Suspension/dp/B0CS8V9LP8/

I have an Ikea trailer similar in size to that Homcom but personally I find it much less practical for my needs.

Does a folder (or at least something with 20" wheels) make sense for my use case?

 

Yes this can make perfect sense. I used a 20" wheel folder for many years with a very large trailer. And I'm also in London:

 

Information link

 

Choose carefully though, some folders are rather weak in their frames and hinges and some with rather weak motor systems, so ask in this forum for advice on any model you consider.

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Edited February 5, 20242 yr by flecc

I saw the the 806 had already been snapped up. Tempted by the 705T but definitely think I would prefer a folder

 

Are you looking for ready made or conversion? [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention] has converted a folding Dahon 20" wheeled Jetstream.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/electric2011-dahon-jetstream-p8.10584/

 

I converted my Dahon Helios...

 

https://www.cyclemotion.co.uk/worldwheels/heliosp8.htm

 

...a bit like this, but "250W" BBS01B:

 

 

 

It drags stuff up anything, as well as being fast along the flats.

Edited February 5, 20242 yr by guerney

Are you looking for ready made or conversion? [mention=3847]saneagle[/mention] has converted a folding Dahon 20" wheeled Jetstream.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/electric2011-dahon-jetstream-p8.10584/

I like the idea of a conversion but realistically I think a ready made would be more practical. Seems less likely to go wrong and easier for insurance to replace if necessary.

 

 

As an aside, does anybody know much about Aventon pedelecs? It doesn't particularly fit the criteria of what I'm after but saw this crazy seeming price reduction at a bike shop near me £1499 down to £500. Apparently the reason is that the warranty is running out (something to do with import from the US) but does seem a pretty big reduction in cost.

Edited February 5, 20242 yr by lawbow

I like the idea of a conversion but realistically I think a ready made would be more practical. Seems less likely to go wrong and easier for insurance to replace if necessary.

 

Here's a sort of review of a Fiido folder, which may be of interest.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/fiido-d11-folding-e-bike-a-sort-of-review.41326/

You don't need a folding bike for a flat. As you mentioned, they still take up a lot of space . Instead, you can use a normal bike. Fit quick-release pedals and quick-release clamp screws to the stem. You can then flatten the bike quicker than you can fold a folding bike. You remove the outside pedal, turn the handlebars 90 deg and it goes flat against a wall.

You don't need a folding bike for a flat. As you mentioned, they still take up a lot of space . Instead, you can use a normal bike. Fit quick-release pedals and quick-release clamp screws to the stem. You can then flatten the bike quicker than you can fold a folding bike. You remove the outside pedal, turn the handlebars 90 deg and it goes flat against a wall.

What advantage would a full size bike give me? I'm riding on city streets and avoiding the odd pothole. It seems to me that for going at a moderate pace on paved roads the nimbleness and acceleration/hill advantages offered by 20" wheels probably outweighs increased ability to take bumps but I could be wrong.

What advantage would a full size bike give me? I'm riding on city streets and avoiding the odd pothole. It seems to me that for going at a moderate pace on paved roads the nimbleness and acceleration/hill advantages offered by 20" wheels probably outweighs increased ability to take bumps but I could be wrong.

My post was about space, not which is best for potholes.

What advantage would a full size bike give me? I'm riding on city streets and avoiding the odd pothole. It seems to me that for going at a moderate pace on paved roads the nimbleness and acceleration/hill advantages offered by 20" wheels probably outweighs increased ability to take bumps but I could be wrong.

 

As you saw from my post above, I use both, including for towing. But the riding qualities of a full size bike are always much better.

 

However one might not be as practical to carrying through people's homes that you mentioned, if the bike also needs to be carried through.

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Even smaller wheels perhaps?

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brompton-with-trailer.46603/

As you saw from my post above, I use both, including for towing. But the riding qualities of a full size bike are always much better.

 

However one might not be as practical to carrying through people's homes that you mentioned, if the bike also needs to be carried through.

.

I suppose one thing I'm interested in is what exactly these much better riding qualities are. I'm basing my thinking on seeing some people writing on the internet about how 20" is actually more ideal for a city electric bike, but they could be talking nonsense. What advantage does a proper bike have outside of high speeds and being better at handling uneven surfaces?

I suppose one thing I'm interested in is what exactly these much better riding qualities are. I'm basing my thinking on seeing some people writing on the internet about how 20" is actually more ideal for a city electric bike, but they could be talking nonsense. What advantage does a proper bike have outside of high speeds and being better at handling uneven surfaces?

 

Stable steering. Steering is much more twitchy with smaller wheels and folders often have narrower handlebars making that characteristic much worse. Sticking one's right arm out to hand signal a right turn can take courage at times.

 

Geometry. The traditional diamond frame bike shape and proportions are much more natural to our bodies and more comfortable. Folders often have cramped handlebar to seat spacing and often some other dimensional oddities.

 

But best if you can get a ride on some of them, then you'll soon find these disadvantages.

 

P.S. Also see my further post with more details below.

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Edited February 5, 20242 yr by flecc

If you need fat shock absorbing tyres, replacement 20" rims are harder to find. Mind you, if your 20" wheeled bike has disc brakes, of course rims won't need replacing nearly as often.

 

My folder is almost as fast as a real bike.

Some further information on how much I modifed my folder to suitability:

 

The original handlebars are too narrow, too high for my height, too close to the saddle and with no adjustments. The steering lacks self centering due to lack of caster angle, so this is made worse by the narrow high handlebars. Like many folders, the steering join has "slop". All this meant that a right turn hand signal at speed down a bumpy hill was only for the brave. Of course the play and wrong angles from the geometry meant poor pedalling efficiency. Since the custom tall steering column couldn't be easily modified, time for some lateral thinking. What I did was buy a competition riser handlebar with swept hand grip ends and mount it upside down and rotated forward as seen below. This lowered the handlebar 1.5" and pushed the handgrips about 1" forward, leaving me with the slight lean forward I wanted and a more effective working relationship to the pedals.

 

http://www.flecc.uk/t/images/barequip.jpg

 

 

The steering column slop was dealt with by glued in shims as shown by the arrows on the right, these providing preload as seen at the far right before the clamp is fully tightened. Tightening locks out the slack in the join, and this together with the lowered and full width bars which shorten the handgrip to fulcrum distance results in markedly increased steering stiffness and precise control at speed:

 

http://www.flecc.uk/t/images/shims.jpg http://www.flecc.uk/t/images/clamppreload.jpg

 

The saddle was mounted as far back on it's rails as possible to finalise the respacing of the frame's functional dimensions. The hinge for changing the battery was kept and the sprung seatpost hasn't been changed yet since I'm not heavy enough for it to operate now the saddle is so far back, so now one of the targets had been fully met, the complete removal of any suspension, flexing and lack of rigidity, all of which sap pedalling power:

 

http://www.flecc.uk/t/images/rear2.jpg

Edited February 5, 20242 yr by flecc

I saw the the 806 had already been snapped up. Tempted by the 705T but definitely think I would prefer a folder

And Tern are eye watering in the pricing department!

And Tern are eye watering in the pricing department!

 

I wouldn't buy a Tern even if I could afford one, because they didn't steal enough of Dahon's welding secrets - this took a turn for the worst.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/tern-vektron-s10-gen3.44294/

Stable steering. Steering is much more twitchy with smaller wheels and folders often have narrower handlebars making that characteristic much worse. Sticking one's right arm out to hand signal a right turn can take courage at times.

 

Geometry. The traditional diamond frame bike shape and proportions are much more natural to our bodies and more comfortable. Folders often have cramped handlebar to seat spacing and often some other dimensional oddities.

 

But best if you can get a ride on some of them, then you'll soon find these disadvantages.

 

P.S. Also see my further post with more details below.

.

Thanks. Yeah, I think the only real way to decide is to try a few out.

they didn't steal enough of Dahon's welding secrets -

I think you'll find there are no secrets in welding.

The guy I buy Dahon spare parts from (one of the only shops in the UK that does), told me he regularly has frame issues with the Tern bikes he sells, but this happens a lot less with Dahons... and almost none when Dahons have the "Rebar" ie the reinforcement bar over the mid-frame hinge. My Bafang 250W BBS01B conversion is the 2006 Helios P8 (has a rebar), but it's an aluminium frame, so despite it being a Dahon, it's age will someday necessitate a conversion transfer to... a newer Dahon. Or a brand new frame of the same type - weirdly those do crop up, I could buy a new old stock Dahon frame today.

 

 

Photo of Snapped Tern Cargo Node here

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xOISY4p_lgE/VYL0c-Q2z5I/AAAAAAAAIiw/exbkCWIMKNk/s1600/frame_0.jpg

 

Edited February 6, 20242 yr by guerney

Yeah partly for reasons of durability I'm now looking at possibly going for a 20" non-folder like an Orbea Katu-e

or a Raleigh Modum - from the reviews sounds like they'll also be a much nicer ride, possibly avoiding some of the problems with folder handling mentioned earlier. Seems easier to find a Raleigh in London to give a spin but the Orbea is a lot cheaper.

 

Does anyone have any views on how much difference a compact like one of these makes vs. a normal sized road bike? The Raleigh has handlebars that twist 90 degrees so that would make a big difference.

Also looking at the cube compact hybrid. Is it generally a big advantage to have bought the bike from somewhere relatively close to you for servicing etc.? And are those Bosch batteries all standard so you can just get a new one if the original one gives ups on you?