Frog battery has blown cant get it back in the case

[russell]

I have a frog battery 36v 8.5 ah. The battery has blown out of the casing, prior to this it was working perfectly and charged normally.

It has about 5 what look like plastic bags which I assume contain the battery power. I have tried placing very heavy weights on the casing but cannot get the contents back .

If anyone has any ideas, if not then I am happy to offer the battery up for repair.

Thanks

 

[russell]

photo of blown battery

 

[soundwave]

you cant fix that it is trying to explode you need to cut the power cables to the bms and remove those packs from the case asap.

there is a short or they have been overcharged to expand that much lucky you not turn it in to a fire ball trying to compress them back down.

 

[Nealh]

The pouch cells are lipo and are fit for recycling now, once they puff up they are a liability so don't try charging them. Best place is to bung them outside in a bucket of water and let them self discharge ready for recycling.

 

[snafu]

Also until you get time to follow the above advice put them outside far away from anything flammable.

Seriously do not store these indoors. They won't actually explode but they will possibly "vent" (Which has much the same outcome). Trust me I've seen it happen. Don't keep them inside the house.

TTFN
John.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Looks like something major has goen wrong with the Lipos during charging.

I was once close to meagre 3S 1200mAhr LiPo that went wrong and exploded during charge, the size of the fireball filled the doorway of my shed as it was on its way out.

 

[russell]

Christ, that is scarey..what is bms referred to above... I will definitely carry out the advice given and am grateful for all of the help. How long should I leave in a bucket of water for before disposing of them, where do I dispose of them.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Christ, that is scarey..

There could be internal damage to the cells, and whilst the water will have cooled them down, they are sealed (hence the bulging like a balloon) so no water will have got inside the cells.

The problem now is that with them possibly internally damadged, moving them could cause an internal short, and its bigbang2 time.

I have taken damaged LiPos down to the council re-cycling centre, carrying them in a metal box in the car...........

 

[vfr400]

Christ, that is scarey..what is bms referred to above... I will definitely carry out the advice given and am grateful for all of the help. How long should I leave in a bucket of water for before disposing of them, where do I dispose of them.

It's nothing to be scared of. Pouch cells do that when they're knackered. If they leak, you get a rather stinky sweet sort of smell, but it's harmless. It's not going to blow up or anything like that.

 

[snafu]

I agree vfr400 but we don't know the history of this pack.

While I appreciate you have probably forgotten more about batteries, motors, controllers etc than I will ever know they can and do burst into flames and you don't want them indoors if it happens.

My experience was flying (Crashing) a model aircraft at Old Warden Airfield during a competition. Model damage was superficial and the battery removed left on a table and nothing more thought about it. About 35 minutes later there was a soft "whoosh" and according to someone who saw it happen a sheet of flame followed by a lot of smoke more "whoosh, flame, smoke. The flames disappeared very quickly, the smoke continued for a few minutes. Presumably much "puffing" had happened shortly before this. The table was never the same again...

This was a 4S 14.8V 2700mah pack. It's frightening to think what would have happened had it done this in the back of the car on the M6 during the trip home.

Better safe than sorry.

TTFN
John.

 

[soundwave]

I agree vfr400 but we don't know the history of this pack.

While I appreciate you have probably forgotten more about batteries, motors, controllers etc than I will ever know they can and do burst into flames and you don't want them indoors if it happens.

My experience was flying (Crashing) a model aircraft at Old Warden Airfield during a competition. Model damage was superficial and the battery removed left on a table and nothing more thought about it. About 35 minutes later there was a soft "whoosh" and according to someone who saw it happen a sheet of flame followed by a lot of smoke more "whoosh, flame, smoke. The flames disappeared very quickly, the smoke continued for a few minutes. Presumably much "puffing" had happened shortly before this. The table was never the same again...

This was a 4S 14.8V 2700mah pack. It's frightening to think what would have happened had it done this in the back of the car on the M6 during the trip home.

Better safe than sorry.

TTFN
John.

 

[vfr400]

I agree vfr400 but we don't know the history of this pack.

While I appreciate you have probably forgotten more about batteries, motors, controllers etc than I will ever know they can and do burst into flames and you don't want them indoors if it happens.

My experience was flying (Crashing) a model aircraft at Old Warden Airfield during a competition. Model damage was superficial and the battery removed left on a table and nothing more thought about it. About 35 minutes later there was a soft "whoosh" and according to someone who saw it happen a sheet of flame followed by a lot of smoke more "whoosh, flame, smoke. The flames disappeared very quickly, the smoke continued for a few minutes. Presumably much "puffing" had happened shortly before this. The table was never the same again...

This was a 4S 14.8V 2700mah pack. It's frightening to think what would have happened had it done this in the back of the car on the M6 during the trip home.

Better safe than sorry.

TTFN
John.

These are not lipos. They're low power lithium-ion cells. What happens with model aeroplanes is irrelevant. Sure, you should always be careful not to short them, and puncturing them will make a stink, but it's nothing to panic about. I've had loads of batteries like that. I just remove the cell-packs (if I want to keep the case) and take them to the tip.

In the old days, we used to use lipos in our ebikes, when it was the only way to get high power without having a battery so massive that it made your bike unwieldly. Occasionally, for whatever reason, some would get run right down (forgot to switch off Speedict or monitors), then they swelled up. I just parked them in the garden and waited for the weather to do it's thing. A few weeks/months later, they'd be at zero volts and got taken to the tip.

I fly model aeroplanes too, and I've never had a problem nor seen one with lipos, though I've heard stories from other club members. All it takes is a wire to get pulled or rubbed through in the wrong place and they can catch fire. Aeroplanes have to deal with bumpy landings and agressive manoevres, so the lipos need to be rotected and properly tied down.

 

[russell]

Once again thank you, these have been unused for about 12 months and then left in my garage so can I assume that they would be ok to place in the recycle bin as my recycle centre is 12 miles away

 

[vfr400]

Once again thank you, these have been unused for about 12 months and then left in my garage so can I assume that they would be ok to place in the recycle bin as my recycle centre is 12 miles away

Our council provided a plastic bag for batteries, like AA cells, etc. It might be an idea to have a word with the recycling bin men when they come. They'll almost certainly have a special container for batteries. I can't believe that they'd be able to deal with them when mixed with normal recycling stuff.

 

[snafu]

Ah ok, vfr, I'm not familiar with the "Frog" brand and took my lead from Neal's post (Who also has probably forgotten more about E-Bikes than I will ever learn).

When he mentioned Lipo's I was immediately concerned about the fact the photo was
(A) Taken indoors and
(B) Attempts had been made using weights to get them back in the case

Obviously due to my own personal experience with damaged Lipo's.

TTFN
John.

 

[vfr400]

Ah ok, vfr, I'm not familiar with the "Frog" brand and took my lead from Neal's post (Who also has probably forgotten more about E-Bikes than I will ever learn).

When he mentioned Lipo's I was immediately concerned about the fact the photo was
(A) Taken indoors and
(B) Attempts had been made using weights to get them back in the case

Obviously due to my own personal experience with damaged Lipo's.

TTFN
John.

Frog isn't a brand. It's the type of plastic case supplied by a case manufacturer. Anybody could have made their own cell-pack with any type of cells and put it in the case.

 

[Nealh]

The pouch cells will be lithium polymer , li-po is a shortened name for them. They come in various sizes and capacity.

 

[snafu]

Confused now... Are these Lithium Polymer as Neil says or Lithium Ion as vfr says?

If Li-on then I agree they are considerably safer than Li-po. When I returned to aeromodelling I used Li-on as they were safer in a crash, migrating to Li-po once I wasn't taking everything home in a black bag every other weekend.

Sorry for hijacking your thread russell.

TTFN
John.

 

[vfr400]

No, they go under the general name of lithium-ion.

There are technical terms and colloquial terms. Colloquially, lipos are the high discharge rate cells that are mainly used in RC models. They're much more volatile than ebike batteries. Technically, all lithium cells are lithium-ion. Different types have different designations. Lipos are LiCO (lithium cobalt oxide). Ebike batteries are normally LMC (lithium manganese cobalt) or LNMC (Lithium manganese nickel cobalt oxide) but the designations change on a daily basis as they keep inventing new chemistries and ingredient D's.

 

[StuartsProjects]

With 'Lithium Ion' and 'Lithium Polymer' pack cells looking so simular, is it wise to always assume the pack was assembled with the safer 'Lithium Ion' type ?