France on a Woosh

[soundwave]

it dont go very far going 30mph tho i need a 1 MWH batt

 

[Rupert1]

Please continue Rupert, it is really enjoyable seeing your ride details, and I apologise if I have offended you.


If more people do as you have, it would broaden the forum and give far greater insight into real world performance.

You just need to post a few shots of the mountains to make it complete.

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No offence taken Eddie and I take your point. We are back over in euro land in September, alps this time, and will try and record any climbs in a bit more detail as I had not realised it would cause this much interest. My main point is though that to ride an ebike purely on the road you do not have to spend a fortune.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It had just gone off but did flicker back to life on the way down. As I have said just a novice on this stuff but the battery is 14.5v. I did use a lot of assist am quite happy with the batteries perfomance. I wonder how many who are saying it should do better have actually tried this stuff. However in my case I had no intention of going further. Under normal flat road conditions, top gear, middle level of assist it certainly goes what I would call a long way, will try one day and run it out to see.

No, I am shopping for cells to make a battery, no criticism only curiosity. The flicker back to life on the way down is the bit that interests me, it is called battery sag. I live on the western end of the Pyrenees but used to be able to se Aspin from my terrasse in the Gers I do have a couple of climbs I would like to do that compare to Aspin in my neighbourhood - 10 km at + 7%. I have to ride a bit to get to the bottom and a bit more to get back home though!

You have confirmed my gut feeling that in mountainous regions a 30 Amp cell will be better than a 10 Amp cell for climbing.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'd go as far as to say that the range isn't that great, given that the elevation gain was just 2,575ft.
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But he was in 2nd and 3rd gear. Back in the day on the hub motor bike I could climb the 2.3 km 7% hill on the way back home at 25 km/h average in 2nd and 3rd if I was in a hurry. The battery didn't like it much though... If I sat down and used 2nd and 1st and stuck to around 16 km/h I never pulled more than about 450 Watts in the steep bits. It is obvious that seeing the range I used to get from a 10.4 Ah battery on a hub motor bike the OP and I do not (didn't) have the same fitness level. And you Eddie sometimes you scare me the things you do in the Alps. You be careful this summer OK?

 

[chris_n]

In your case, the computer may add up all the elevations from small segments to arrive at 5600ft but as you depart from your house and return to it, your net elevation is zero.

That's quite a strange comment, all circular rides have a net zero elevation gain. One climb on that route is from 700m straight to 1700m so 3000ft in one go, another isfrom 600m to 850m so hardly a small segment.
As others have said I am quite surprised to see a hub motor doing this without overheating.

 

[Woosh]

That's quite a strange comment, all circular rides have a net zero elevation gain. One climb on that route is from 700m straight to 1700m so 3000ft in one go, another isfrom 600m to 850m so hardly a small segment.
As others have said I am quite surprised to see a hub motor doing this without overheating.

Even flattish routes have small sections where you go up and others where you go down. When you can go down without braking, your potential energy is converted to kinetic energy, reducing battery consumption by the same amount that you expended to go up, ie if you don't brake at all in a whole circular route, the net elevation is zero.
there is no doubt that a CD motor is better suited to climb a mountain than a geared hub motor but the difference has most to do with the fitness of the rider. If the rider is very fit, he/she can ride up the same hill at 10mph or more, the difference in efficiency vanishes. That's why I asked Rupert1 for the trip time and from it, deduce the speed and from the speed, the motor efficiency and from motor efficiency battery usage.

 

[chris_n]

Even flattish routes have small sections where you go up and others where you go down. When you can go down without braking, your potential energy is converted to kinetic energy, reducing battery consumption by the same amount that you expended to go up, ie if you don't brake at all in a whole circular route, the net elevation is zero.
there is no doubt that a CD motor is better suited to climb a mountain than a geared hub motor but the difference has most to do with the fitness of the rider. If the rider is very fit, he/she can ride up the same hill at 10mph or more, the difference in efficiency vanishes. That's why I asked Rupert1 for the trip time and from it, deduce the speed and from the speed, the motor efficiency and from motor efficiency battery usage.

What I would really like is to be able to convert some of that kinetic energy back into battery power. I know regen has been discussed before many times and is not possible with a crank drive but I would like a mode where on my descent from 1700m to 600m I could regain some of that power, answers on a postcard please!

 

[Woosh]

I could regain some of that power, answers on a postcard please!

you would need to have a generator fitted to the back wheel. One that is capable of generating 300W-500W will probably weigh more than 2kgs. Would you want one on your bike?

 

[anotherkiwi]

What I would really like is to be able to convert some of that kinetic energy back into battery power. I know regen has been discussed before many times and is not possible with a crank drive but I would like a mode where on my descent from 1700m to 600m I could regain some of that power, answers on a postcard please!

The most efficient way of having more energy is to carry a bigger or second battery. Then you could carry your own power station, Escher has a couple of good ideas you could try:

 

[EddiePJ]

What I would really like is to be able to convert some of that kinetic energy back into battery power. I know regen has been discussed before many times and is not possible with a crank drive but I would like a mode where on my descent from 1700m to 600m I could regain some of that power, answers on a postcard please!

I could do with regen when riding this route. To date I have ridden it three times, and just about made it to the peak of the final climb using just one battery with zero left in reserve. Wearing brakes out on what is almost an 8 mile decent on the other side, goes against the grain.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Main climb is about 14.5 km . All this sounds good to me, I used to get about two rides to Hendaye and back on a full charge - 10.4 Ah and 1052 metres climb total over the 50 odd total km. That battery is so "tired" (think synonym staring with knack....) I can just get one there and back ride from it now.

 

[chris_n]

I could do with regen when riding this route. To date I have ridden it three times, and just about made it to the peak of the final climb using just one battery with zero left in reserve. Wearing brakes out on what is almost an 8 mile decent on the other side, goes against the grain.

Wearing brakes out is the biggest problem, I would love to solve this problem to enable my wife to get out more. Just reducing the acceleration when pointing downhill would allow her to get out a lot more around here.
Never cycled in that area Eddie but have had a few ski trips there, the first time I got out out of the train at Kleine Schiedeg and saw the North face of the Eiger is probably the only time my jaw has actually dropped in my whole life. The veiw is astounding nothing but glaciers all around, stunning!

 

[EddiePJ]

So sorry to derail your topic even further Rupert, but in answer to your comment Chris, the first time that I arrived in Lauterbrunnen it was dark. Waking up the next morning to bright sunshine, I was equally blown away by the enormity and beauty of everything.

quickly in respect of riding there, and as it happens the Eiger. The guy in this clip, and been planning the following ride to take me on.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu_RbqgMW_/?taken-by=fritzkurt&hl=en


Back on topic. Rupert I have been given your climbing achievement some thought and other than anotherkiwi, I don't recall anyone else having posted what would considered a proper continuous climb on a hub drive bike. Well done.

 

[Rupert1]

So sorry to derail your topic even further Rupert, but in answer to your comment Chris, the first time that I arrived in Lauterbrunnen it was dark. Waking up the next morning to bright sunshine, I was equally blown away by the enormity and beauty of everything.

quickly in respect of riding there, and as it happens the Eiger. The guy in this clip, and been planning the following ride to take me on.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu_RbqgMW_/?taken-by=fritzkurt&hl=en


Back on topic. Rupert I have been given your climbing achievement some thought and other than anotherkiwi, I don't recall anyone else having posted what would considered a proper continuous climb on a hub drive bike. Well done.

OK Eddie, thanks. I do in fact know the area you are talking about pretty well. Went there twice with a friend to do the north wall

but weather intervened both times. Another old friend of mine, Eric Jones, did the first British solo ascent of the north wall.

 

[EddiePJ]

You are a very lucky person. It has always amazed me just how quickly that the weather can change up there. I was kind of caught out one night last year, when I ventured up the Männlichen on the bike. Fortunately I had the sense to turn back, so all was good. Nothing beats the feeling of being up in the mountains in the evening/night time, when you have them all to yourself. An experience that makes you feel more alive than you ever could be elsewhere.

I recently read a superb article in a climbing magazine about Eric jones. I had never realised quite how many achievements that he has had throughout his life. A very inspiring man.

 

[Rupert1]

You are a very lucky person. It has always amazed me just how quickly that the weather can change up there. I was kind of caught out one night last year, when I ventured up the Männlichen on the bike. Fortunately I had the sense to turn back, so all was good. Nothing beats the feeling of being up in the mountains in the evening/night time, when you have them all to yourself. An experience that makes you feel more alive than you ever could be elsewhere.

I recently read a superb article in a climbing magazine about Eric jones. I had never realised quite how many achievements that he has had throughout his life. A very inspiring man.

If you met Eric you would never know. He still lives in a cottage at the village of Tremadog with his Australian wife Ann and runs a small cafe. I knew him well when I had a cafe in the nearby village of Beddgelert, I moved away some years ago to the North Wales coast. This area of North Wales now has some great bike tracks in the forests for anyone in the area, details from local tourist offices.

 

[GLJoe]

Waking up the next morning to bright sunshine, I was equally blown away by the enormity and beauty of everything.

Every time I've woken up in Switzerland and needed buy anything, I've always been blown away by the enormity of the bill!

Its a good thing they don't make e-bikes, something tells me they wouldn't be cheap ;-)

 

[Croxden]

My lawn mower was made in Switzerland, it was expensive but good.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Every time I've woken up in Switzerland and needed buy anything, I've always been blown away by the enormity of the bill!

Its a good thing they don't make e-bikes, something tells me they wouldn't be cheap ;-)

They do to: https://www.stromerbike.com/en_GB.html

From £3955

 

[Nealh]

The Dolphin/Swizzbee E bikes are Swiss. Out of production now but still going along, was circa 2.5 - 3.5k euros originally. Marvellous ott engineering and design with coded ignition and a split diff rear hub, gates belt driven and a chain drive.