Forza vs Agattu

flecc · May 27, 2008

When you try the Agattu you'll see what a huge difference there is between the two.

The Agattu is a true bicycle with power assistance given to the pedalling, and the amount of power is directly proportional to your input. The more effort you put in, the more it assists, so the end result directly represents the rider's natural ability with enhancement. On the very steepest hills this system has an advantage since it drives through the gears, and being quite low powered, it has a very good range.

The Forza is more moped like, less like a bicycles, pedalling being an option most of the time, only really being needed on steeper hills. On the flat and on gentle slopes you can ride it as a low speed moped up to 15 mph without pedalling, or add your pedal effort and increase the average speeds.
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keithhazel · May 27, 2008

On the flat and on gentle slopes you can ride it as a low speed moped up to 15 mph without pedalling, or add your pedal effort and increase the average speeds.
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off the thread here FLecc but you have used a phrase which means i can jump in and ask the question which im mulling over as thinking of a new bike...the phrase "add your pedal effort and increase the average speeds."
as soon as you "add your pedal" power and go over 15mph the power from the motor will cut out wont it so thus leaving you as pedal power only,are any of the e-bikes geared similar to a normal bike that you can pedal faster then 15mph and then if you hit a hill or head wind then add power to assist, i see the wisper and i think tork that do 19mph in deristricted mode...i couldnt be doing 19mph in pedal assist mode could i ?..the quando fits the bill for me as far as hopping on and off the train and sticking it in the car boot but ive got right out of condition and fancy doing the 40 miles on a e-bike, but i dont want to sit there as i do on my quando with my legs getting stiff, but i also dont want to have to use leg power alone...if im correctly thinking that the power cuts out at 15mph its no good i might as well stick with what i have got..is there a way to keep the assistance past 15mph ?....the range mentioned on the bikes at 40-60 miles would be ideal if i can keep up the 19mph as the jpurney would be only 30 minutes longer then my present bike/train/bike journey but the key point will be getting the fitness back as i want to pedal with assistance when the roads worse then level or windy...

flecc · May 27, 2008

keithhazel said:
off the thread here FLecc but you have used a phrase which means i can jump in and ask the question which im mulling over as thinking of a new bike...the phrase "add your pedal effort and increase the average speeds."

Notice the wording Keith, "increase the average speed", not the top speed.

The bike is restricted to 15.5 mph, but in adverse circumstances such as hill climbing it's speed will drop of course. Therefore, if the rider adds pedal power, that speed reduction will be less severe, so the average speed for the journey will increase. The increase will be greatest in hilly terrain, least in quite flat terrain.
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keithhazel · May 27, 2008

flecc said:
Notice the wording Keith, "increase the average speed", not the top speed.

The bike is restricted to 15.5 mph, but in adverse circumstances such as hill climbing it's speed will drop of course. Therefore, if the rider adds pedal power, that speed reduction will be less severe, so the average speed for the journey will increase. The increase will be greatest in hilly terrain, least in quite flat terrain.
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to be honest Tony when i read it that was my first thoughts and having read most threads while i have been a member here i figure that due to hills many of you would be very happy to average 15mph.......i on the other hand live in Hull and commute to Doncaster...both of which are as hilly as Holland..consequently even when i ride a normal bike what i call gradients most of you would call it FLAT....

....so our legs are not as conditioned maybe as you hilly people lol......so my question is altered...can i get an e-bike that has the deristricted speed of 19.5mph and modify it so i can pedal assist at that speed..if not can the gears be modified to enable me to pedal at that speed after the motor cuts outs at 15mph without drag from the motor...because it would be like pandora's box having a bike that can go at 19.5mph but only if you stop pedaling and use power alone..which incidently i dont like..i can cope on short journeys for a mile or 2 on my quando as its fun, after that its like sitting in the dentists chair

flecc · May 27, 2008

Most bikes are restricted now, and the only candidate off hand that I can think of is Wisper's 905se. That will give power up to 18 mph in derestricted mode, and with normal derailleur gears you can easily pedal at that. That's not much faster than your Quando of course, but easier to pedal, though I doubt it would be particularly easy to pedal at 18 mph without power.
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stokepa31_mk2 · May 27, 2008

Hi Keith

Have you considered an agattu with reduced rear sprocket. This would assist you up to a high speed and has the range to do your trip. Harry has seen the 18 tooth sprocket knock ten minutes off his usual time with the Torq.

keithhazel · May 27, 2008

flecc said:
Most bikes are restricted now, and the only candidate off hand that I can think of is Wisper's 905se. That will give power up to 18 mph in derestricted mode, and with normal derailleur gears you can easily pedal at that. That's not much faster than your Quando of course, but easier to pedal, though I doubt it would be particularly easy to pedal at 18 mph without power.
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as you say not much faster then the quando.. 3mph extra which only shortens each mile by 27 seconds..but on a journey of 42 miles would be 18.9 minutes...and like anything else its what you get used to as when i first got the quando 15mph felt fast.

..then after a while its NOT..lol..especially if you are on roads with nothing but fields by the sides then its agony..what you need is walls/bush's, houses ect to give you a sense of moving....however pedal assisting at 18 would be different as the concentration on pedaling and production of endorphins from the exercise will make it an enjoyable experience....i had looked at the wisper but heard mention about motor drag in pedaling mode and i certainly know what that feels like dont i

...thanks once again for factual advice..."i'll be back"

keithhazel · May 27, 2008

stokepa31_mk2 said:
Hi Keith

Have you considered an agattu with reduced rear sprocket. This would assist you up to a high speed and has the range to do your trip. Harry has seen the 18 tooth sprocket knock ten minutes off his usual time with the Torq.

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i had not really as figured these might be great for hilly area's..which i have none....and also they dont have the option for those moments when you want a rest do they.......however i would be interested to know the actual assisted speed they do.. are they faster then the pro connect ?.....plus i have to say they might be the best bike in the world for technical stuff but the agatta looks like a bike from the 1940's..... wondered what the handle bars where referrewd to then as "gay" wasnt as much used in conversation..lol...

HarryB · May 27, 2008

stokepa31_mk2 said:
Hi Keith

Have you considered an agattu with reduced rear sprocket. This would assist you up to a high speed and has the range to do your trip. Harry has seen the 18 tooth sprocket knock ten minutes off his usual time with the Torq.

It is a quicker than a Torq and works out at as a 5 minutes saving with my 10 mile journey. It does make you work for it though. If you are feeling tired then the Forza/Torq will do most of the work for you and that is quite a useful bonus. However if you are after increasing your fitness then the Agattu wins the day.

keithhazel · May 27, 2008

HarryB said:
It is a quicker than a Torq and works out at as a 5 minutes saving with my 10 mile journey. It does make you work for it though. If you are feeling tired then the Forza/Torq will do most of the work for you and that is quite a useful bonus. However if you are after increasing your fitness then the Agattu wins the day.

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how fast on the speedo is quicker harry ?

if it makes you work for it how hard ?

even if the answers to above questions are perfect i still feel that the option to "twist & go" if you feel rough is something not to miss...

but i need to see all the facts , get me calculator out and add up the pro's and cons..

stokepa31_mk2 · May 27, 2008

keithhazel said:
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i had not really as figured these might be great for hilly area's..which i have none....and also they dont have the option for those moments when you want a rest do they.......however i would be interested to know the actual assisted speed they do.. are they faster then the pro connect ?.....plus i have to say they might be the best bike in the world for technical stuff but the agatta looks like a bike from the 1940's..... wondered what the handle bars where referrewd to then as "gay" wasnt as much used in conversation..lol...

Hi Keith

the pro has the 8 speed hub gear but in its unaltered state will phase down the power to ensure it does not assist past 15.5mph. the extra gear would allow the sproket to be reduced slightly more than the agattu. I think from memory Flecc said that a pro connect with a 16 tooth rear sprocket would assis to somewhere between 17mph & 18 mph which is what you are looking for. Battey life will be reduced mind. I still need to fit my speedo to the agattu but will give max speeds etc once this is done.

keithhazel · May 27, 2008

stokepa31_mk2 said:
Hi Keith

the pro has the 8 speed hub gear but in its unaltered state will phase down the power to ensure it does not assist past 15.5mph. the extra gear would allow the sproket to be reduced slightly more than the agattu. I think from memory Flecc said that a pro connect with a 16 tooth rear sprocket would assis to somewhere between 17mph & 18 mph which is what you are looking for. Battey life will be reduced mind. I still need to fit my speedo to the agattu but will give max speeds etc once this is done.

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thank you that will be interesting.....could do with wisper facts next as their spec's are pretty good....

flecc · May 28, 2008

Lordylordy said:
Decisions decisions...

And then of course, if I go the simple Pedelec route, do I hang on for a Pro Tech (and maybe put forks on it myself - I liked them) or do I just go for the Agattu - 1 less gear but in stock now?!

Aaaaaggghhh!!!

There's always the bus.

,

musicbooks · May 28, 2008

flecc said:
There's always the bus.
,

..or a snazzy horse that 50c are now flogging (not dead)
bw
musicbooks

burncycle · May 28, 2008

Lordylordy said:
OK - have just been to test drive the Agattu in Richmond Park with Tim from 50cycles.

Did I miss the throttle?

Well, you could certainly feel the pedal-assist kick-in with the Agattu the minute you moved the pedal. I took off at quite a lick along a relatively flat road and began to wonder why I would need a throttle.

Then I came back along the road and headed up a slightly steep hill. I didn't have to get out of the saddle, but I did feel I could have done with that extra boost of speed/energy I might have got from a throttle.

I thought the Forza had both options - assisted and throttle - though not simultaneously, but apparently not. But I'm sure my neighbour - who has a Sustain - said his bike had both, so maybe I'll have a quick go this evening.

Anyway, it's a difficult decision. However, as I really want the bike for commuting each day, I may not need the range of the Agattu (or Pro Tech), but benefit more from the extra convenience and accleration of the Forza.

Decisions decisions...

And then of course, if I go the simple Pedelec route, do I hang on for a Pro Tech (and maybe put forks on it myself - I liked them) or do I just go for the Agattu - 1 less gear but in stock now?!

Aaaaaggghhh!!!

Go for the Torq.
Any backers ???

burncycle · May 28, 2008

Lordylordy said:
Over the Forza??

Its a tiny bike !
The Torq is a commuting piledriver !!!

Forza vs Agattu

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