For all you sailors

[anotherkiwi]

http://northman.pl/en/jachty/maxus-22-2/

A Polish chap just finished a single handed, non stop round the world on one of those (no motor, no assistance of course) in 271 days. I think he deserves a generous round of applause and personally I bow before his courage and great skill!

 

[Zlatan]

It is quite incredible for such a sized ( and category of) boat.
Certainly deserves his flying fish tie...
Well done. Good man and a great advert for boat..

 

[flecc]

Yes, fantastic feat. It took courage to end up back in Poland too, considering all the much nicer places he could have stopped off instead.
.

 

[grldtnr]

I am a nautical type myself, it really beats me how these people do these things.
Especially woman like Ellen MacArthur , such a petite lass, then theres other people since then who have done it on less than 80 days, methinks illegal substance must have been ingested!

 

[Planemo]

Been sailing for many years too, starting out racing Cadets at 10 years old, during which the old man bought a Shearwater at which, although an old slug nowadays, scared the life out of me at when up at 45 degrees, then moved up to racing Lasers for some 10 years, the beginning of which a mate of my old man decided to 'one up' me and buy a Tornado cat 'for a laugh' which absolutely scared the bejusus out of me when out in a blow (although exhilarating), onboard which it was hilarious watching my old man trying to roll an Old Holborn whilst sustaining buckets of salt water on his face, simultaneosly juggling a tin of Skol (he couldnt quite work out it was the wrong sort of vessel for this charade) but to be fair he did quite well when he worked out the trapeze was the dryest place on the boat. Given he could make a rollie on his knee whilst driving a manual Vauxhall Victor estate he was quite resourceful on such matters. Then kids came along and I had a bit of a hiatus but I desparately missed being on the water so bought a 2 seater Kawasaki 1200cc 2 stroke triple JetSki which in hindsight was a bit mental for children of 5 and 7 to be on the back of but by Toutatis did it move. It reminded me of my motorcycles of the day but managing to evacuate a 60 litre tank of Shells finest in about 3 hours was a bit harsh and to be honest I got bored of it after 2 years. I wanted sails so thought Ah nice family sized dinghy so bought a Topper Omega which to be fair was a very good boat but the fact of it being able to be capsize it e soon realised we wanted to

 

[Planemo]

Oops must have submitted that early by mistake...

Wanted to get out of wetsuits and into some comfort. The Omega could actually get a good lick on with the assymetric kite and someone hanging off the trapeze so it was fun but it was quite a big dinghy and the family wanted some creature comforts so it was sold off and I bought an 18' keelboat with a cabin and (tight) berths for 3. I did a couple of overnighters on it and the family much preferred the laziness of it but it was too small for 2 adults and 2 kids to stay onboard for more than a day. I quite liked it really, I enjoyed many a lazy day ambling up the river, not fussed whether it was under motor power or sail (I was quite a bit older now haha) but in the end I used it less and less due to other commitments and at the last shout I used it 3 times in one season and I just couldnt justify the club/mooring/antifoul etc fees per year for it so it was reluctantly sold. Fast foward to now and I still yearn to get on a sailboat but I feel that to own and maintain a keelboat needs more cash than I can muster (vs the amount of times that I can actually use it whilst full time working shifts) so I am hankering after a small cat, maybe a Dart 15 which will allow me to get my 'fix' without costing the earth and which I can still get the kids on (now 11 and 13) when they feel like it. I love to see kids on boats, the Cadet days were amazing and to see 100+ little sails out on the water all jostling on the start line was amazing, far better than bashing buttons on an xbox controller. There just doesnt seem to be the same size fleets of kiddie boats on the water these days, although I am a little uplifted to see 20 or so Optimists and RS Fevas out racing at Mersea Island when I get the chance to go down there. Anyway, enough saol talk I guess, nice to know there are some other Pedelecers out there who have an interest in water as well as land!

 

[Zlatan]

Dart 15 is great but wont carry any weight...go for Dart 18...no more of a handful, just as easy to sail, works single handed...can even fix a little OB to it. Fantastic thing..loved mine..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've got a nice Hunter Medina on a trailer sitting on my drive if anybody wants to buy it and sail around the world. I bought it a few years ago when I was going to downsize from my Westerly Pentland ketch, but I still have both.

 

[Zlatan]

Hunter Medina is a cracking little boat...quite light and can carry quite as bit of sail...it will give good 25 footers a run for their money...Havent got room for one...but nice boat. Think its the Fox now ??? ( but could be wrong)

 

[anotherkiwi]

Dart 15 is great but wont carry any weight...go for Dart 18...no more of a handful, just as easy to sail, works single handed...can even fix a little OB to it. Fantastic thing..loved mine..

I agree on the size issue but Darts are very uncomfortable to sail with that sharp deck/hull joint, memories of heel to shoulder bruising after coming unstuck on the trapeze once... I have never sailed a 16 so can't comment on its load carrying capability but like my cat it has a comfy rounded over deck join, easy on the feet and stickier.

I crewed on a Dart once in the big Pornichet regatta and as we were inland sailors and small wind specialists we actually won a leg beating all the European top sailors. Crossing the finish lines there were screams of rage "Who the hell are those ....s?" "Does anyone know them?" etc. I guess we messed up the end result for a few people by stealing some valuable points.

 

[Zlatan]

Dart 18 is rather poor in lightwinds...sailing it fast ( in any conditions) is all about crew keeping nose down to keep waterline length as long as poss ( and windward hull just but only just flying)but if crew doesn't get back fast enough they can ( as me and daughter proved) pitch pole...ie capsize end over...I loved ours..it was about only thing I have ever sailed that gives similar sensations to windsurfing in strong winds. To be fair daughter and myself were only competitive in f4 plus. ( not sure but I believe optimum crew weight is 19 stone ( combined) ...since I,m around 16 ( plus) doesn't leave much for crew...We got 21 kts out of ours..( me on wire, daughter helming).. I never liked 16...very heavy ( polyethylene I think) but 15 is great...Regret selling our 18... Single handed it a lot too...fine..
There is something special about fast cats...hated tacking...but loved gybing in a blow..Daughter was incredible crew...always kept us upright in gybe...Probably my most enjoyable sailing ever...and in something that never planes !!!
We tried a Tornado (We are friends with White family) but actually preferred Dart..its an underrated boat..
I,m currently learning to windfoil..( well trying..had a few bad falls , not sure old knees will hold up). Would love a ride in a foiling Cat...Once followed Hydroptere out of Argeles ( might have been St Cyp) ...Could not believe it...Was blowing about 15 kts...he took off ( literally) ..was easily over 30kts...( It held sailing speed record at time..think it was around 48 kts when it held it) Essentially it was a massive foiling Cat..( Tri) What a machine...
A day sailing on Hyrdoptere in 18 kts of wind, on flat water , would be my dream day out...we can all dream..

Which Cat do you have Kiwi ?? Always thought Dart more comfortable than dinghies I,d had...but not sailed many other Cats.. A mate bought a Spitfire...which to be fair could leave our Dart for dead...( And it planed)

 

[anotherkiwi]

Had (what is left of it is in a yard somewhere on the Loire in Nantes) an LB15, the first boat designed by Yves Loday (Barcelona mixed Tornado Gold). I was a bit heavy for it but once I got the Mylar main I could hold it in a breeze. Never got the rudders sorted - they used to pop up at speed... I used to sail every day before going to work at one point so I got quite good at it. Those days (late 70's early 80's) we were sailing against all the big boys who weren't quite pro yet but might as well have been: Le Cam, Pajot brothers, Loday, Poupon brothers... You learn humility. My crew went to high school with quite a few of them, damned good sailor she was, "paré", "à virer" and it was done, magic.

My favorite trick on the river when solo was to gybe with the lee bow stuck in the water up to the beam and with a little flick of the hips I was off on the other tack, I did have some boat handling skills. I scared a windsurfer silly one day, it was squall after squall so I was sailing out, waiting then riding the squall back into the bay. He had never been on a cat, I'm not sure he ever tried again. I said "we don't know each other but when I give the word get back here with me as far back as you can". He got the picture really quick when he didn't move fast enough the first time and the bows went in up to the front beam, after that he was sitting on my shins You couldn't see the boat, it was covered with spray and froth.

 

[Zlatan]

Had (what is left of it is in a yard somewhere on the Loire in Nantes) an LB15, the first boat designed by Yves Loday (Barcelona mixed Tornado Gold). I was a bit heavy for it but once I got the Mylar main I could hold it in a breeze. Never got the rudders sorted - they used to pop up at speed... I used to sail every day before going to work at one point so I got quite good at it. Those days (late 70's early 80's) we were sailing against all the big boys who weren't quite pro yet but might as well have been: Le Cam, Pajot brothers, Loday, Poupon brothers... You learn humility. My crew went to high school with quite a few of them, damned good sailor she was, "paré", "à virer" and it was done, magic.

My favorite trick on the river when solo was to gybe with the lee bow stuck in the water up to the beam and with a little flick of the hips I was off on the other tack, I did have some boat handling skills. I scared a windsurfer silly one day, it was squall after squall so I was sailing out, waiting then riding the squall back into the bay. He had never been on a cat, I'm not sure he ever tried again. I said "we don't know each other but when I give the word get back here with me as far back as you can". He got the picture really quick when he didn't move fast enough the first time and the bows went in up to the front beam, after that he was sitting on my shins You couldn't see the boat, it was covered with spray and froth.

I agree Cats have quite a small comfortable sailing envelope...( Dart especially so)
Doesn't really perform until f4 but by a 6 is almost unmanageable . Part of problem is fact it doesn't plane...its top speed is virtually same in f5 as a f7...Its why we packed in with them...A good windsurf board will play in stuff best Cat sailor in world would be only surviving in...but then in light winds, dinghies drift past them..
Putting it in perspective top speed of a Dart 18 will be around 22kts...I,ve doubled that on a board..Top speed sailors on boards are hitting 50 mph on kit available to all..
But in right conditions Cats are great.
There aren't many things that sail I haven't tried and in my experience absolutely nothing gives same thrill, excitement as a decent windsurf board...just getting a bit old, stiff, decrepit, to get best from them now...

 

[flecc]

I agree Cats have quite a small comfortable sailing envelope...( Dart especially so)
Doesn't really perform until f4 but by a 6 is almost unmanageable .

Not too dissimilar to wind turbines then.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Not too dissimilar to wind turbines then.
.

Yep, exactly...
But, I've never sailed one of those...They spoil sailing in many places tho.. Wind gusty, turbulent and less powerful down wind of them..

Was sailing near Leucate last week...Monday and Tuesday turbines shut down...( too much wind) Rest of week wind around 5 mph ???

 

[flecc]

Yep, exactly...
But, I've never sailed one of those...They spoil sailing in many places tho.. Wind gusty, turbulent and less powerful down wind of them..

You're probably aware of all the experiments in powering ships from wind with sails, wind turbines and rotor sails, so they can be sailed.

There's seven wind power concepts on this link
.

 

[Zlatan]

You're probably aware of all the experiments in powering ships from wind with sails, wind turbines and rotor sails, so they can be sailed.

There's seven wind power concepts on this link
.

There is also a car propelled by wind driven " turbine". It managed to exceed speed of wind exactly down wind and directly into it...!
There are a few,yachts kicking about with turbine rather than sails..never been on one but seen a couple...

 

[Planemo]

I hear you on the envelope ideal for cats, but low wind isnt a problem for me nowadays, I dont mind crawling around. What I dont want is a handful, anything else is fine. I am past wanting to go everywhere with my heart in my mouth! In fact, the only real concern I have with a cat is the wind being so low I cant tack the thing. They do struggle a fair bit more than a monohull.

Interesting comment re an 18' not being much more of a handful than the 15. The 18's just scare me even looking at them! Mast goes up for what seems like miles, and the boat in general just seems far more imposing than a 15. Be interesting to find out what the all up weight difference is - I have to take into account that I will often be launching/recovering and sailing on my own.

 

[Zlatan]

I hear you on the envelope ideal for cats, but low wind isnt a problem for me nowadays, I dont mind crawling around. What I dont want is a handful, anything else is fine. I am past wanting to go everywhere with my heart in my mouth! In fact, the only real concern I have with a cat is the wind being so low I cant tack the thing. They do struggle a fair bit more than a monohull.

Interesting comment re an 18' not being much more of a handful than the 15. The 18's just scare me even looking at them! Mast goes up for what seems like miles, and the boat in general just seems far more imposing than a 15. Be interesting to find out what the all up weight difference is - I have to take into account that I will often be launching/recovering and sailing on my own.

The 15 is certainly easier on your own but 18 is by no means difficult. I launched and recovered mine frequently in my own...Dont get me wrong 15 is a fantastic boat...and very capable. Probably ny not inconsiderable bulk pushed me to 18...To sail its certainly not intimidating...if you can sail a 15 well...you can an 18..Trailing might be more of an issue...If you are concerned...just get the 15...Cant go wrong with either..