Floods in Cumbria,amazing reading.

Kudoscycles

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What the authorities won't tell you about the floods in Cumbria....by Philip Walling
I am sure if your house is flooded you have the compensation that you are looking after the freshwater mussel.
Amazing reading but I am not surprised.
KudosDave
 

trex

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PW writes a good story but like many journalists, he did a good job at looking for the causes but does not make enough effort to research the subject. Dredging does not stop the flood in Cumbria. We need to hold water back in the hills and stop pouring ever more concrete on or near river banks.
 

mike killay

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A few years ago, I drove over a huge bridge in the Spanish province of Aragon. I could not understand why it was there because it did not go over anything, road, rail or river.
Apparently it was there because when it does rain, huge amounts of water come down off the mountains and make a river 200 yards wide.
Now the UK river laws are bound by an amalgam of the EU views of many disparate people from all sorts of different climatic conditions.
Yet another reason to get out of the EUSSR.
 

Kudoscycles

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PW writes a good story but like many journalists, he did a good job at looking for the causes but does not make enough effort to research the subject. Dredging does not stop the flood in Cumbria. We need to hold water back in the hills and stop pouring ever more concrete on or near river banks.
Trex.....they protected Pickering by building a catchment area up in the hills,they should look to do the same in Cumbria,it all seems so obvious but the Environment Agency never seem to suggest this as a solution,maybe it is not possible but it should be a discussed option.
They cannot stop the flow but need a means of holding it back so as to control the release.
Interesting problem.
KudosDave
 

flecc

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Trex.....they protected Pickering by building a catchment area up in the hills,they should look to do the same in Cumbria,it all seems so obvious but the Environment Agency never seem to suggest this as a solution,maybe it is not possible but it should be a discussed option.
They cannot stop the flow but need a means of holding it back so as to control the release.
Interesting problem.
KudosDave
Trees are one of the best ways to hold back water on the hills, but the interested parties just don't want Britain's bare hills landscapes densely forested again as they once were many centuries ago.

There is dense tree planting in a few enlightened areas now, so maybe as the success of that is demonstrated, others will finally follow suit.
.
 

mike killay

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Trees seem to be a must. Soak up water, stabilise loose earthy, provide a haven for wild life.
But forget eating lamb chops!
 
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trex

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floods will happen, no matter what humans try to do. The hill farmers who live and work upstream should be paid to manage flood waters on their land, that has to be cheaper than paying insurance.
 

Lancslass

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We were in Madeira last year where they have suffered devastating floods in the past due to it being so mountainous.

They are building large concrete culverts down the mountains so that they can channel the water where it won't do any harm.

It sounds drastic and it would scar the landscape to an extent but it may be appropriate to the Lake District.
 
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flecc

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floods will happen, no matter what humans try to do. The hill farmers who live and work upstream should be paid to manage flood waters on their land, that has to be cheaper than paying insurance.
But often caused by humans. Stripping the hills of their ancient forests to create those hill farms was the original cause of the flooding tendency.

We had an equivalent on our housing estate on South London's fringe. The higher land at the end had been farmed for at least 400 years and manuring and ploughing in mulch over the centuries had built up about three feet of soil above the chalk downs underlay, a perfect sponge absorbing heavy rainfall.

Then the 500 acres was bought for a golf course and to construct that all the soil was stripped off and the chalk contours reprofiled. Then the soil was shuttered and all the flints and stones removed and graded.

Finally the fairways were laid with a thin layer of soil and small stones, the rough with mostly a coarse stone and soil mix and the greens with finest soils and sands. The huge surplus of quality soil and flintstones were sold off.

The outcome was that the end of our estate suffered severe flooding as the water raced off the slopes, something that had never happened to that land in local records going back 1000 years.

So the golf course constructors had to think again, cutting in long water trenches as temporary retainers and raising high curved bankings like dams to temporarily hold back the downward rush of water. It's still not right many years later, only it's now just the road that floods like a river and not the properties.
.
 
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flecc

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Exactly what do the EU intend to tell the Dutch?
Coincidentally I was listening to a radio item earlier which indicated that the Dutch haven't got the severe flooding problem that we have. The reason being that they haven't got any hill run-off in their flat land, so any flooding from rain is minor, well spread out and easily controlled.
.
 

trex

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Man made? agreed but we can't change the overall weather or remodel our towns that are already built over floodable areas. Farm land is the only realistic weapon we have to mitigate the damage to buildings and infrastructure. It would be much cheaper to compensate the farmers for the damage to their crops and land than paying for ever more for flood insurance.
 
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flecc

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Man made? agreed but we can't change the overall weather or remodel our towns that are already built over floodable areas. Farm land is the only realistic weapon we have to mitigate the damage to buildings and infrastructure. It would be much cheaper to compensate the farmers for the damage to their crops and land than paying for ever more for flood insurance.
Where most agrarian land is concerned I agree. But where the run-off is from grazed hill country and bearing in mind how economically marginal such hill farming is, reforesting is a better long term solution.
.
 
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Kudoscycles

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The controversial Three Gorges Dam project in China has stopped down river cities on the Yangzte from flooding. The storm drain system in California,famous in the film Grease stopped Los Angeles flooding.
Our government seem to favour big infrastructure projects and support the north of England....how about Cameron's Dam?
KudosDave
 
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anotherkiwi

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Can you set him in the concrete foundations? :rolleyes:
 
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JuicyBike

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Some grouse moors above the affected region, popular with the shooting set and owned by some of the richest landed gentry, have been drained to improve their sport.
This has been a major contributor to the floods. And I believe grants of £2.5M were given to the land owner above Hebden Bridge to continue further draining work in 2012.
The rich pay thousands per day to prove themselves superior in armaments over grouse. Much more lucrative than farming sheep and well clear of the flood plain.
The politico-financial term "trickle down" in this context is rather sickening.
 

cosybike

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I concur, It's a little more complicated than that. And comparisons with China and the Netherlands are total mince. The medias use of "1 in 100 years" was also not helpful and people took that as security and fact.

There will always be a bit of mitigation, prevention and engineering, but in some places it will never be fully preventable.

It's not popular but Resilience includes things like NOT reinstalling expensive wooden flooring after a flood and watching the weather forecast. People said they were not warned. I don't even live in a flooding zone and 5 days beforehand I knew there could be problems. If I lived anywhere with historical flooding I would have been trawling the internet and walking my area to see the risks for myself...because flood maps are a guide and landscapes change very quickly. Sir Walter Scott noticed this in Perthshire when drainage was altered for agriculture.

Basically the rules you apply to choosing a wild campsite also apply to buying a house.
 
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