Fast4ward Edge problems

[NeilP]

I have only managed to find two threads relating to this bike, both of which were dead ends.
Looks like the Fast4ward Edge folder is almost identical to the A2B Kuo..but I can not be sure.
The Edge has a handle bar display, but I can not see one mentioned in the Kuo pdf manual.


Someone brought one of these in for me for repair. Battery was entirely dead. Even the OEM charger would not come on line and bring it back. Guess the bike had been left on and / or the BMS draining the pack.

Opened the pack up and see it is standard Sony CGR18650CG's, a 6s4p pack giving nominal 24 volt 9 Ah
Gave it a slow 0.1 amp charge, direct to the cells, while monitoring cell voltages. Slowly brought the pack back to life, and BMS cam back on line and allowed the OEM charger to work.
After a good 12 hour charge, the SoC indicator shows full, and Green OEM charger light stays on green.

The pack has two main terminals and also a smaller 'signal' pair. Anyone know what these are, ?

Problem with this bike is that it is 'dead' no motor activity.
The is a handlebar display with a single central button. This display comes on line when powering the bike on from the battery switch. The writing/ diagram on the display indicates that the button should cycle through 6 display options. But pressing the button does nothing. The display just sits there displaying 21 Cycles.

Well..it says 21 on the display, with a small label at the bottom saying "cycles'.

Is this really a 21 cycle indication ? or perhaps an error code? like the Bionics?

Neither PAS or throttle make the motor activate, in any of the 3 position switch positions. Slow, off or high.

All connections and plugs seem sound but more than that not started hacking in to the wiring loom or probing with a DVM yet.

Thought I'd wait to see if any one had any hints /advice on this bike.



Thanks

Neil

 

[trex]

if the LCD is made buy King Meter then error 21 is usually for a non functioning PAS sensor. I would unplug the motor cable, brakes, PAS and throttle signals to see if the error goes away.

 

[NeilP]

Thanks

I'll he a look and see if there is a name or logo on it.


A full unplug and re plus was in order today.

If not then, have to start hacking the cables open and seeing gif the controller is actually working, power in 5 volt out etc etc.

Thanks

 

[Kuorider]

Just spotted your post. The key lock just holds the battery and has no switch . The smaller pair of battery terminals send info to the display, In turn, battery voltage, temperature, and number of cycles charge/ discharge that the battery has gone through. The display does not show fault codes except battery error and empty alarm. Yours has been charged 21 times so almost new. The display clips in to it's base, check that all six pins are clean and making contact and the display is pushed fully home. The button scrolls between battery % left, volts, temp, mph, kph. A curved bar display shows battery state . Cable from display are orange- earth, brown- DQ data, red -anode, black- cathode, yellow- speed sensor, green- speed sensor. The display tends to default to cycles from speed if you stop. Can be a bit random sometimes . The controller is a bit vulnerable low down so check for water ingress. The edge and Kuo are virtually identical.

 

[NeilP]

Thanks for the info

In Goa, India till December, so doing this from memory, 30 degree in early evening, with thunder storm doing its best to burst ouf ear drums !

The dusplay button on this bike does not cycle through anything while the bike is powered on, it only scrolls when,for a couple of seconds, after power switch on battery is turned off, and display is still live due the charge in the capacitors.

Haf conttoller off and out of its black outer case. Bone dry. Not yet opened controller itself, but not expecting any moisture.

A2B USA did send me the wiring schematic, with all colour codes. I can post here if anyone wants it, but please do remind me in December when I am back in UK.

The schematic shows an expected 10 or 12 volts out to the PAS system..... only getting 4.1 volt

5 volt throttle line only putting out ... 1- 2 volts


So my thought .... Internal controller voltage regulator issue.?

Can the bike be made to run with ANY 24-28 volt source WITH NO data line connected ?

The battery was allowed to go totally dead, BMS drained the pack then shutdiwn output and would not allow recharge via OEM charger. I opened pack and checked cell groups. All were down to 1.2 volt or so, none dead to zero. I gave a 0.1 amp charge for a few hours, till BMS came back online, and then OEM charger would work.
Wonder if BMS and the battery data lines are still transmitting an error code? Hence question about running bike from external 28 volt source.


Thanks

 

[Kuorider]

It will run ok with the display off it's mount so no data line required. Should therefore run ok from an external supply. A couple of points, the UK version may not be the same as the US one,and some have a Torque sensing chainwheel, the Edge may be different. The only faults shown are battery warnings. It will run on the throttle regardless of the three way switch position and with the pedal sensor unplugged.

 

[NeilP]

Ok, thanks
Well no run on throttle ever, but with no 5volt being fed to the throttle, understandable.

It has the torque sensing sprung loaded mushy feel chain ring.

I am beginning to think controller is the problem.
May just replace with generic 6 FET unit, and remove the switch/chainring and display

Thanks for the input

 

[Kuorider]

Re the mushy feel. I found this effect at first and in fact one of my original posts on here was for info on how to convert this to another type. However I quickly found that the mushy feel was a sure sign of being in too high a gear. Due to the assist I think there is a tendency to run in too high a gear, this is OK with a 'normal' pedalec as merely turning the pedals gives the dialled in assist level. Torque sensor types are I think better for 'proper ' cyclists who just need assist on hills and against wind etc. I notice a companion new to bikes, running on his motor a lot and him helping it on hills whereas I tend to pedal a lot and only have the motor helping as required. Having no tried both types I would always choose a torque sensor bike.
If you do convert let me know if you need a buyer for the left over bits.

 

[NeilP]

Wiloco
I am on beach in Goa at the moment.
Will see what the owner wants done with it when I get back.

 

[NeilP]

So an update to this thread and a question about the PAS unit.

Have a new controller, and it works fine with just battery, phase, throttle and brake lines connected.

Previous controller boltage reg stage was fried by something external drawing too much current and toasting components on the voltage reg 13v & 5 volt section

Those external parts are speed sensor, PAS unit and throttle
Now throttle works speed sender has had new hall fitted, so both work

Need to test PAS unit
It is 3 wire (12v, gnd, signal)
Feeding it 12volt, the signal line stays at 0.5 volt regardless of how much torque is applied.....but this was while holding the back wheel against the brake and just applying pressure to the pedal.

It has now occurred to me that there maybe some rotational sensor too ?
I guess this PAS unit need rotation & torque. so will have to devise a new way to test if, to load the back wheel to give torque, while the bike on a stand, while rotating the crank by hand,

Does anyone know what the PAS unit outputs ?
Pulses, or variable proportional voltage or just a single voltage level with no proportional output?


Second question:
Does the L/M/H switch affect speed obtained from throttle operation or is it only a PAS control?

 

[Kuorider]

No info on the outputs but the pedals must be rotating for motor start. Is your pas not working now ,or have you not risked connecting it? A temporary, in line, low value fuse on the 12v feed may help. Testing torque on the stand may be tricky, really the only way is road testing with the bike loaded and pedalling. I would be looking for a short somewhere to ground. Just a guess but could you be starting off in too high a gear and thus overloading something (the mushy feeling = to high a gear). It may just have been a faulty controller. The three position switch gives two power levels and 'off' . The throttle over rides everything including the off position and gives full power. I run mine on a roller trainer (fan resistance type) occasionally to check things and give the battery a bit of work in the off season . After 18 months I have had no problems or issues so no fault finding experience. Anything done was out of interest rather than necessity.

 

[NeilP]

Ok, thanks
I have now sorted it.
Issue was a pulled speed sender wire up at the handle bars. Pulled, stretched and all internal wires broken, with very little external sign of damage.

So new sender and controller, and all sorted.

The bike really needs a proper steering stop, as oversteer is what caused the damage by the look of it.

PAS all works as you describe.
Thanks

 

[Kuorider]

Good news re your fix. An improvement worth doing is to 'up' the gearing a bit. you can get a freewheel with an 11 tooth top gear from Dave (d8veh) on here. With this you can trot along at 15mph without the speed limiter cutting in and out. Totally transforms the feel of the bike.

 

[NeilP]

I'lll speak to the customer, see if she is interested

 

[Kuorider]

I forgot that this was a customer's bike. Raising the gearing would only suit if the user is a reasonably fit cyclist, probably best leaving 'as is' . Also the addition of a steering damper will prevent the bars flopping about and help to prevent the problem recurring. Hebie 696 is the one to use from Rose Bikes.

 

[NeilP]

the damper, yes, i fitted one of those to my first bike. thanks for the reminder