eZee Torq: Motor cutting out

[aroncox]

I'm hoping someone out there can help me. My eZee Torq has developed an annoying problem, the motor will suddenly cut out, the lights will all turn off as if the key had been turned off, and then will come back on again. This can happen up to 20 times on my 10 mile journey to work, but usually it happens about 10 times. It can happen on any part, but seems more likely as I'm going up a hill (not even a big hill, more of a bump really). The battery can be fully charged, or needing a recharge soon. It's not related to the brake lever (I've had that before), and just once last week the key managed to somehow switch to an off position, so I'm wondering if the key is loose in some way, but have been unable to confirm this. It always comes back on again in a short time (although I do need to let go of the accelerator and re-twist it).

Does it sound like I need a new battery (I hope not as they're not cheap)? Anyone have any other ideas as to what the problem may be?

Thanks for your help.

 

[flecc]

If it's Li-ion, it sound like battery voltage drop under load, but it's unusual for it to change from OK to 10 times as quickly as that. If that's the case it should instantly bring the light back on if you switch off and then back on. If it comes back on by itself very quickly without you switching off and on, it's likely to be something else wrong.

If it's an NiMh battery, a battery caused cutting out fault is much less likely.

Other than battery, the most likely causes are a controller playing up under load, or an intermittent connection. If it comes back on by itself without fail after the same interval each time, and without you doing anything other than twisting the throttle, the controller is very likely to be the trouble.
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[HarryB]

I had a similar problem with my torq 4 months ago. It kept cutting out and I would have to release the throttle to re-set it. It would mainly happen going over bumps and in the end I sent the bike back to 50 cycles. I thought it was the battery but eventually it was identified as only the battery terminals and they were replaced and everything has been OK since then. Jim at 50cycles would have a better idea of how to fix it without having to send it back.

Harry

 

[aroncox]

I had a similar problem with my torq 4 months ago. It kept cutting out and I would have to release the throttle to re-set it. It would mainly happen going over bumps and in the end I sent the bike back to 50 cycles. I thought it was the battery but eventually it was identified as only the battery terminals and they were replaced and everything has been OK since then. Jim at 50cycles would have a better idea of how to fix it without having to send it back.

Harry

Interesting, thanks. I've spoken to 50Cycles and at first they thought it needed a new battery, I'm still waiting for them to get back to me after giving them further information. I will look at my terminals to see if they look strange at all, and copy your post to them.

 

[aroncox]

If it's Li-ion, it sound like battery voltage drop under load, but it's unusual for it to change from OK to 10 times as quickly as that. If that's the case it should instantly bring the light back on if you switch off and then back on. If it comes back on by itself very quickly without you switching off and on, it's likely to be something else wrong.

If it's an NiMh battery, a battery caused cutting out fault is much less likely.

Other than battery, the most likely causes are a controller playing up under load, or an intermittent connection. If it comes back on by itself without fail after the same interval each time, and without you doing anything other than twisting the throttle, the controller is very likely to be the trouble.
.

Thanks flecc. It is a Li-ion battery and it does seem to happen under load, strangely more on the way to work than on the way home. It turns off and there is a second or two pause before the lights come back on, always cycling from red to whatever level the battery is at. I've never had time to switch it off and on again as it alway automatically comes on, I just need to flick my wrist on the accelerator to start the motor going. So it sounds like from your description that it's most likely a control problem. Anyway I'll send your post to 50Cycles too and see if it prompts them into action. Thanks again, you're always so helpful!

 

[Basingstoke]

I'm hoping someone out there can help me. My eZee Torq has developed an annoying problem, the motor will suddenly cut out, the lights will all turn off as if the key had been turned off, and then will come back on again. This can happen up to 20 times on my 10 mile journey to work, but usually it happens about 10 times. It can happen on any part, but seems more likely as I'm going up a hill (not even a big hill, more of a bump really). The battery can be fully charged, or needing a recharge soon. It's not related to the brake lever (I've had that before), and just once last week the key managed to somehow switch to an off position, so I'm wondering if the key is loose in some way, but have been unable to confirm this. It always comes back on again in a short time (although I do need to let go of the accelerator and re-twist it).

Does it sound like I need a new battery (I hope not as they're not cheap)? Anyone have any other ideas as to what the problem may be?

Thanks for your help.

Hi this problem has been sorted with the latest Torq, before cut out was 20amp now its 30amp with the new bike.

 

[Ian]

A long shot, but is the battery fuse and fuseholder tight and unbroken, I've known similar fuseholders in other applications to fracture and cause intermittent contact with the fuse, almost always invisible from the outside but often evidenced by burn marks on one end of the fuse.

I've suffered occasional poor connections at the battery contacts on my Torq causing a sluggish throttle response, usually after hiting a big bump. Flecc mentions this on his Torq website. In my case there has been discolouration of the bronze contacts on the battery, teltale signs of arcing which could cause cutting out if bad enough.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I still favour poor connections or the controller here. Like Ian, I still occasionally suffer poor battery connections giving sluggish or almost no response, but deal with it so automatically I scarcely notice it's occurrence.

The odd thing with Aroncox's bike is the way it comes back immediately though, without any action on his part. That's why I'm also mentioning the controller, since if that's verging on failure it could behave in that way, and connection failure doesn't normally self correct consistently.
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[flecc]

Hi this problem has been sorted with the latest Torq, before cut out was 20amp now its 30amp with the new bike.

Could you say where you got this information Basingstoke?

If the battery hasn't been changed it's difficult to believe, because the present battery can't consistently give over 20 amps and the cut out is at 32 volts dropped voltage due to the battery being unable to deliver enough under excess load. The bike plays no part in this.
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[flecc]

Thanks for the info Scott.

As you say, it's mainly been a problem of overload rather than normal load, so it's good that new Torqs won't suffer this any more.
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[aroncox]

Hi Flecc

The peak cut off for the batteries was previously 30amps which caused some delimited bikes to cut out when under serious ongoing strain, like hill climbing without peddling plus a heavy rider.

This is now changed to 40amps to prevent cut out under similar cases.

30amps was plenty for the Sprints and other models but the delimiting on the Torq with the large wheel, small motor rarely created this problem and sufferers were advised to re limit.

How the bike is used by an individual can really effect the performance of a bike.

Hope this clears matters up.

Thanks

Scott

Well when I first got the bike the fuse blew on my first steep hill, but that was because I hadn't read the bit about changing the 20amp fuse to a 30amp one (which was supplied), I did that and everything has been fine until now. Once the fuse blew however I couldn't use the motor at all whereas in this case I can a second or so later, I also just looked at the fuse and it's all clean and shiny and appears to be fine.

I am however pretty heavy, I do ride delimited, I have the accelerator always on, and there are bits where I don't peddle as I don't want to get sweaty on the way to work, so it does sound similar to the to the things you said, but surely if it's the fuse it would just blow, or can it cause a cutout without blowing?

Anyway, thanks for your help!

 

[aroncox]

Hi Flecc

The peak cut off for the batteries was previously 30amps which caused some delimited bikes to cut out when under serious ongoing strain, like hill climbing without peddling plus a heavy rider.

This is now changed to 40amps to prevent cut out under similar cases.

30amps was plenty for the Sprints and other models but the delimiting on the Torq with the large wheel, small motor rarely created this problem and sufferers were advised to re limit.

How the bike is used by an individual can really effect the performance of a bike.

Hope this clears matters up.

Thanks

Scott

Sorry I just reread this and understand it on the third reading (duh, it is too early in the morning for me). Yes, I think that may well be the problem, perhaps I am drawing 30amps+ from the battery so it's cutting out, that does sound very plausible. Any ideas on what I should do if that's the case? How do I get it upped to 40amps? Is that possible?

 

[flecc]

Not sure about getting it changed. I think it's unlikely to be the cause though, since you confirmed that it quickly comes back on by itself. Normally when battery cut-out occurs, it's necessary to switch off and on, or replug the battery for the power to return without a wait.

You could soon determine if that's the cause though. Where it tends to cut out like this, on the next trip give it some energetic assistance and try to keep it well above 12 mph. If that's ok, re-run that stretch in your normal way, and then if it cuts out, that could well be the cause, especially if it's at or below about 13 mph when it happens.
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[Basingstoke]

Mistake sorry

Could you say where you got this information Basingstoke?

If the battery hasn't been changed it's difficult to believe, because the present battery can't consistently give over 20 amps and the cut out is at 32 volts dropped voltage due to the battery being unable to deliver enough under excess load. The bike plays no part in this.
.

Sorry got my numbers wrong

 

[flecc]

No prob Basingstoke, following Scott's info, I'll be watching the newer bike/battery combinations to see how they stand up to high load drains.
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[aroncox]

Not sure about getting it changed. I think it's unlikely to be the cause though, since you confirmed that it quickly comes back on by itself. Normally when battery cut-out occurs, it's necessary to switch off and on, or replug the battery for the power to return without a wait.

You could soon determine if that's the cause though. Where it tends to cut out like this, on the next trip give it some energetic assistance and try to keep it well above 12 mph. If that's ok, re-run that stretch in your normal way, and then if it cuts out, that could well be the cause, especially if it's at or below about 13 mph when it happens.
.

Well cycling hard up hills seems to help (however my legs are killing me this morning). It may also explain why the motor cuts out less on the way home than on the way in to work, as I cycle harder on the way home. More worrying is that now when it cuts out I sometimes have to wait up to 10 seconds or so before it turns back on again (I still don't have to do anything, it is automatic). I wonder if it's getting worse?

I will, if I can find the time, turn the delimter back on this weekend and see if that stops the cutouts as that may be a clue of some kind.

 

[aroncox]

An update for those of you kind enough to offer me suggestions.

I re-limited my bike 10 minutes ago and took it out for a test ride. After about 5 minutes the motor got very loud (sounded almost like a train), there was a clunk (it felt like it came from the motor) and it stopped. The lights went off, almost immediately flicked back to green, but when I twisted the accelerator nothing happened. After 20 seconds or so, the motor came back on again for a few seconds (still very loud, and not at all healthy sounding) and then stopped again. This repeated a few more times until I gave up trying anymore. The battery was fully charged, I was on a flat road.

Does that ring any bells with any of you. If it now at the point where I can't ride it any more, hopefully 50Cycles will take it back and fix it (thank god I bought the extended warranty!).

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

[flecc]

One of three things.

One of the five Hall signal wires routing from the motor to the controller has an open connection somewhere, usually at the joins by the fork or in the controller. That can kick up quite a loud noise.

Controller failure leaving a Hall signal not registered.

A mechanical fault in the motor, but that's very unlikely.

Either of the first two could have been responsible for the cutting out that you've suffered. It's probably best for the bike to go back for attention now.
.

 

[faster]

40A Upgrade?

Hi Flecc

The peak cut off for the batteries was previously 30amps which caused some delimited bikes to cut out when under serious ongoing strain, like hill climbing without peddling plus a heavy rider.

This is now changed to 40amps to prevent cut out under similar cases.

30amps was plenty for the Sprints and other models but the delimiting on the Torq with the large wheel, small motor rarely created this problem and sufferers were advised to re limit.

How the bike is used by an individual can really effect the performance of a bike.

Hope this clears matters up.

Thanks

Scott

Scott,
I am experiencing the cutting out problem with my Torq since de-limiting it, but do not wish to go back to limited cycling. Do you have any more info on the new 40A limiting: is this a change in the controller, or battery pack? Is an upgrade available? Or is a description of the modification required available (as an electronic engineer I am happy to modify the pcb if required, but some guidance would be useful)?

The bike cuts out on the same hill every day even with me pedaling, I am a heavy rider, but modifying the bike seems an easier option than modifying my weight!

Thanks.

 

[flecc]

I understand Scott and Tim are in Cologne at the bike show, Faster, but they'll be back next week. It might be a good idea to use the link I've given and email the query as they could be too busy to visit the site immediately on return and may miss this.

50cycles@50cycles.com
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