eMezzo conversion continuation

[patpatbut]

I'm definitely set on the sine wave controller with LCD.. as I really miss my old LCD console on my 26" folder...and I'm not very confident the Speedict I have will work on my HTC Android phone.. or even be suitable replacement for a simple LCD console..

Yeah I'll definitely stock up on throttles and what not again, I'm going to order a ton of stuff.. so if anyone wants anything, let me know.. I'll post an announcement before I order soon.

I probably do need to order another set of sine wave controller. Do let me know if you do start your order. thanks
Pat

 

[patpatbut]

I checked those several times :-( but maybe they're being pulled somehow when riding, as my wiring set-up is very messy it has to be said, and there's a lot of stuff in the rack bag alongside the controller and wiring.. I've stopped though many times, and checked and double checked, and all the connections seem firm. The only way to be sure is doing a proper wiring job I think and to get rid of those horrible Chinese pins and messy wiring by doing a straight-forward single cable and socket and plug approach to the controller. I have my own little workshop and soldering iron, so it's something I can try. I had planned to put everything inside a small ABS box (with the Speedict) and hard wire everything with cables coming out or have a single connector on side for battery/PAS/throttle connector.

I did wonder if the connectors for the phase wires had become oxidised as I had that problem on my old bike and just giving them a light sand down, improved electrical conductivity.

Note: I don't know if you recall Dave, but I had that disaster early on in this build, where I suffered the rear inner blow-out and had to ride the bike 2 miles on the rim! It didn't do the rim any good, and who knows what it did to the motor/sensors? Maybe there was some damage eh? I tried to wheel it back but rode it partly too, as I was knackered and freezing and just wanted to get home..was in middle of winter and was middle of nowhere at night!

As Dave suggested, the reliability of phase wire signal is related to how well the connection between the motor and controller. I had a problem with jerky movement of my motor and I thought the motor was damaged. When I checked the connection of the phase wire, I found out quite a lot of dirt at the phase wire connectors. After cleaning that up, it works fine.

Pat

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks Paul. One bike would never be enough for me, but if I had to only own one it would be the M2L-X. All through the summer I have been using this 11.5KG Brompton including the Goldant fitted. Its just fantastic to have such a light weight portable bike in the summer for popping into pubs on a sunny afternoon/evening and is way easier than driving into Cambridge or relying on buses at the end of a pub session

I am not sure but suspect in the winter I will revert back to my trusty original M3L with the original Tongxin I converted nearly four years ago.

I have just also completed a similar conversion on a Dahon Uno (upgraded to a Duo) with the Goldant motor. I will try and post some pics of this soon. This will of course spin faster in a 20" wheel so maybe that will also get more use over the Winter too. I have everything configured so I just use the same Brompton bag (even on the Dahon) and can quickly swap out controllers i.e. the Tongxin one is programmed for around 12A and the Goldant for 8.5A max. The new Goldants with the cable exiting the other side below the axle shaft make, it so much easier and avoid all the faf of the Brompton frame slip.

I am also playing around with the hidden wire brake cutout units Dave sent me so I can keep original brake levers. I hate the cheap nasty cut out brakes!

Regards

Jerry

 

[cwah]

Jerry, I've seen on your signature you are now using Konion pack? As you are looking for the most lightweight setup, why don't you try these new Panasonic NCR18650PD or LG ICR18650D1 cells?

They are at 230wh/kg so 2 times lighter.

 

[cpg]

Paul, good to see you back working on the Mezzo again. Here are my thoughts.

Dont dismiss a front motor, its the qr that holds and locks the wheel in place in the forks, not the thin stays that used to swing the wheel out when folding. If you can get a motor with a qr then give it more consideration. I don't know much about electric bikes so there might be other reasons why you can not fit a front motor but give it some thought, it would be my first choice if I were doing a conversion.

If you are planning to build a new battery pack, would it be possible to build something that will fit on the underside of the rack, possibly either side of the rear wheel along with the controller? you could then use the bike with whichever bag you wanted and not have to carry them around with you in the bag.

Consider fitting in-line skate wheels to the rack in place of the tiny ones, rolling the bike folded makes a big difference, much easier than carrying it.

 

[morphix]

I have just also completed a similar conversion on a Dahon Uno (upgraded to a Duo) with the Goldant motor. I will try and post some pics of this soon. This will of course spin faster in a 20" wheel so maybe that will also get more use over the Winter too. I have everything configured so I just use the same Brompton bag (even on the Dahon) and can quickly swap out controllers i.e. the Tongxin one is programmed for around 12A and the Goldant for 8.5A max. The new Goldants with the cable exiting the other side below the axle shaft make, it so much easier and avoid all the faf of the Brompton frame slip.

I am also playing around with the hidden wire brake cutout units Dave sent me so I can keep original brake levers. I hate the cheap nasty cut out brakes!

Regards

Jerry

I can't wait to see your Uno pics Jerry!! Remember I was going to go down that route myself. It seems the ideal lightweight minimalist candidate for conversion.

 

[morphix]

Paul, good to see you back working on the Mezzo again. Here are my thoughts.

Dont dismiss a front motor, its the qr that holds and locks the wheel in place in the forks, not the thin stays that used to swing the wheel out when folding. If you can get a motor with a qr then give it more consideration. I don't know much about electric bikes so there might be other reasons why you can not fit a front motor but give it some thought, it would be my first choice if I were doing a conversion.

Thanks cpg I'll look into that further, but I seem to recall (someone, can't remember whom) completely ruled out a front wheel conversion due to the nature of the fold on the Mezzo. The entire wheel slips out of the drop-outs and folds under the bike (quite some distance from the drop outs). Maybe it was a drop-out width/size or material limitation, rather than the fact it drops out for folding. Will have to dig out the manual specs or look up online and see whats possible.

If you are planning to build a new battery pack, would it be possible to build something that will fit on the underside of the rack, possibly either side of the rear wheel along with the controller? you could then use the bike with whichever bag you wanted and not have to carry them around with you in the bag.

I suppose that's possible but my thinking is really Jerry-style here.. to have ONE/TWO cords and everything tidy in a box in the rack bag, that unplugs and slides off..shoulder strap that clips onto bag (or harry handles) and the bag is easily portable or quickly removable from bike. Actually with 10Ah (36V) the battery and controller hardly take up much space in the Mezzo bags (particularly the large "commuter bag". Still plenty of room for shopping or other stuff.

Consider fitting in-line skate wheels to the rack in place of the tiny ones, rolling the bike folded makes a big difference, much easier than carrying it.

That's a good point and I've seen that mod for Mezzo on endless sphere to may well give it a go.. as the bike doesn't seem too steady/easy to pull on those tiny wheels (especially not with the rear motor fitted!).

 

[Arbol]

Interesting thread, I subscribe myself.

The summary of the discussion then is the Q100 fits but barely, right?

Also, the Q100 is rear but no cassette, I assume (so, no Q140, which I believe is basically the Q100 with cassette). Mezzos I believe are mostly cassette. Does then the Q100 require some gear change?

I would like about other possibilities:

- Q85, with 80mm dropout size
- Bafang BBS01: could it ever fit when the bike folds?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

To clarify the different versions of these motors;
The Q100 comes in front (100mm wide) and rear (135 mm wide). The rear has a thread for free-wheel gears. You can get 11 tooth top gear DNP gear clusters, but they cost an extra £25-£35 if you can find a 7spd. 8spd and 9spd are available, but they increase the width.
The Q140 is the same rear motor as the Q100 but with a cassette spline.
The Q85 is 85mm wide for narrow forks and has less power and torque than the Q100. Front version only
The Q75 is 75mm wide. It's smaller and lighter than the Q85, so expect even less power.Front version only.

None of the rear motors should affect the fold of any bike because they're the same width as the standard hub. The axle sticks out a bit further on the cable side, so that could have some effect. On the other side, you can grind off any excess.

 

[patpatbut]

To clarify the different versions of these motors;
The Q100 comes in front (100mm wide) and rear (135 mm wide). The rear has a thread for free-wheel gears. You can get 11 tooth top gear DNP gear clusters, but they cost an extra £25-£35 if you can find a 7spd. 8spd and 9spd are available, but they increase the width.
The Q140 is the same rear motor as the Q100 but with a cassette spline.
The Q85 is 85mm wide for narrow forks and has less power and torque than the Q100. Front version only
The Q75 is 75mm wide. It's smaller and lighter than the Q85, so expect even less power.Front version only.

None of the rear motors should affect the fold of any bike because they're the same width as the standard hub. The axle sticks out a bit further on the cable side, so that could have some effect. On the other side, you can grind off any excess.

Hi Dave,

I thought the fork width for Q75 is 100mm not 75mm.

If it is indeed 75mm that would be perfect for brompton.

Pat

 

[shemozzle999]

Link to Q75 photo's:

Der Q75 ist da - Seite 3

 

[Arbol]

I always wondered how it was possible the Q75 was 100mm while the Q85 was 80mm, as described at:

Q75 Front-driving Hub Motor - BMSBATTERY

(Fork size: 100mm)

Is there a list of max voltage / amperage that the Q100 / Q85 / Q75 accept?

I believe I have read the Q100 accepts 48V but just a little more than 10A. I do not know about the others. I agree with the comment that the Q75 with the S06P would be wonderful, very lightweight for a foldable.

Has anybody experience with that motor, in comparison to the Q85, in terms of power and efficiency / consumption?

 

[cpg]

Just had a look at the Q100, 85 and 75 motors on BMSBattery. It looks like the cable is fed through the centre of the axle in which case they wont be available in quick release format which will be a problem for a Mezzo. It might be possible to fit some kind of wing nuts to the axle so the nuts can be tightened and slacked by hand so the wheel assembly can be swung out for folding. I have also seen allen wheel nuts for bikes which means you would just have to carry an allen key with you. Not as convenient as a QR, just a potential work around if you wanted a front hub on a Mezzo.

 

[dingrpdl]

ORi M9

I did a conversion on my ORi M9 (which is essentially a Mezzo D10 with 9-speed components and a different badge) in the middle of the year.

I chose to install a Keyde rear hub motor with an integrated controller. It ran fine. But I didn't like the Keyde assist-level implementation. So I started working on using an Arduino micro-controller to implement the assist-level control. However, due to a lack of time, I haven't done anything the last few months. I plan to resume the work soon.

I will do a full write-up once everything is completed. However, here are some pictures of the bike I took during installation and testing. The completed bike has the battery pack attached to the seat post.

I think it would be very challenging to have a front hub motor installation on the Mezzo/ORi. I can't think of a way around the need for the QR skewer to go through the hub. Using nuts would make speedy folding impossible.

Richard

 

[Deleted member 4366]

What exactly was it that you didn't like about the PAS?

 

[Arbol]

I like this Ori. This is probably the smallest bike to which one can add a big motor.

 

[cpg]

Dingrpdl, did your Ori come with the full rolling kit fitted to the rack or was it a later addition? I have seen the rolling kit on the Ori web site and emailed them about its availability in the UK but didnt get a reply so I made my own.

 

[dingrpdl]

What exactly was it that you didn't like about the PAS?

The Keyde system comes with a handlebar-mounted unit with two buttons (+) (-), an LED single-digit readout of the assist level (0 to 5) and a battery level indicator.

Upon powerup (when the battery is connected), the unit defaults to Asist Level 3. Also, when the motor controller does not detect pedalling for a few minutes, it automatically powers down. The system powers up when pedalling is detected again, except that the Assist Level goes back up to 3. Level 3 is fairly powerful. I have had a couple of near-accidents because I was not mindful of the fact that it had gone back up to Level 3 after having left the bike idle for a while. Furthermore, it is not possible to set the Assist Level to a lower level or zero prior to pedalling because the Assist Level selector unit is not powered up until pedalling begins.

The battery level indicator is essentially useless for me because I am using my own LiFePO4 12S battery pack with a nominal voltage of 39.6V -- somewhat higher than the voltage of the battery packs that Keyde sells (possibly LiPo 10S). The indicator shows full charge even though I have used a considerable portion of the pack capacity.

Going with a micro-controller is probably an overkill. But I want to do it as an exercise in programming. I hear that keeping one's mind active is a way of staving off dementia Also, I can implement a brake cutout switch this way. And a throttle too, if I wish.

Richard

 

[dingrpdl]

Dingrpdl, did your Ori come with the full rolling kit fitted to the rack or was it a later addition?

Mine came with the rolling kit already installed, thankfully. Accessories are always hard to track down separately.

Richard