October 25, 200619 yr The eZeebike Torq's performance is being openly published and widely discussed now, and since it's in widespread use with the limiter disconnected, I wonder how long it will be before Torq users come unstuck? This subject has also appeared in the CTC forums, and the CTC will certainly have a number of police officer cyclists as members. After all, some forces do have a bit of a reputation for ignoring the major issues that really concern us, hitting on minor issues instead. What are your thoughts on this issue?
October 25, 200619 yr As per the DfT factsheet entitled, "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPCs) in Great Britain": "The electric motor must not be able to propel the machine when it is travelling at more than 15mph." So from this we can deduce that it is within the law to exceed this speed as long as the motor doesn't provide any assistance above 15mph. In other words it is ok to pedal faster! The Torq with the limiter removed is obviously easily able to exceed this speed in both e-bike mode and pedelec. Reports of 22mph are common. The grey area is what is worse - a Torq restricted with the rider pedalling hard to acheive 22mph or a Torq derestricted with the rider gently pedalling at 22mph ? Is one inherently more unsafe than the other?
October 25, 200619 yr No doubt at some point someone will be prosecuted, however I would like to think that it won't be someone who uses the extra speed sensibly. There is also the other point about the torq having the switch to overide the Pedeletric functionality. Ian The eZeebike Torq's performance is being openly published and widely discussed now, and since it's in widespread use with the limiter disconnected, I wonder how long it will be before Torq users come unstuck? This subject has also appeared in the CTC forums, and the CTC will certainly have a number of police officer cyclists as members. After all, some forces do have a bit of a reputation for ignoring the major issues that really concern us, hitting on minor issues instead. What are your thoughts on this issue?
October 25, 200619 yr Author Incident What prompted my thread entry was that a local officer who'd seen me riding electric bikes for years and normally taken no notice, was obviously following me at just over 20 mph, albeit with me pedalling. Luckily I use a bar end mirror in my urban area and spotted him, so I simulated both huge pedalling effort and gradually lost speed, faking out of breath as he then passed. I suppose I could have claimed it was a medical emergency, I was on my way to the dentist at the time!
October 26, 200619 yr As I mentioned on another thread I don't remove the limiter on my Torq as I think it would reduce the range too far. I'd be amazed if the police would bother checking the Torq but they might do at least once to make the rest of us stop and think. It might be best to get one of those electric wheelchairs, they seem to be a law unto themselves. Tony
October 26, 200619 yr Interestingly, from the Swizzbee website: "The swizzbee 50C is the first bike in Europe which has received approval to travel at unlimited speed" Does anyone have any more information on this? It would appear this manufacturer has managed to bend the rules!
October 26, 200619 yr Author I understand that Germany has adopted the Swiss rules for the super class of bike, i.e. same as an ebike but with compulsory insurance and speed limit of 20 mph. There's nowhere in Europe where that Swizzbee comment applies, the rest of Europe has the pedelec rules, with Britain in the two law situation due to our old regs still in force as well as the European regs.
October 27, 200619 yr What I'd like to do is fit an easy to access switch, so I can de- and re-limit my bike with ease. That could be useful for two reasons. Firstly if stopped I could re-limit and hopefully this wouldn't be noticed, but more importantly in the Summer I am happy to go at the standard speed and pedal more, but in the Winter I want to get to work asap as it's colder. Anyone think that sounds possible? I am assuming the wires are nothing special to the limiter.
October 27, 200619 yr I asked Tim at 50Cycles this question last month. His reply was: "We already have one customer that added a switch to the limitier to make it easier to turn on or off. The parts warranty will be covered but we will not be responsible for any faulty wiring caused or damage." I'm considering doing this to my bike as there are times when I'm running low on power and it's quite difficult to get the Torq to hold a lower speed. Alternatively, to help keep the Torq at lower speeds, Flecc has documented an excellent modification on his site: http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/twistgrip.html What I'd like to do is fit an easy to access switch, so I can de- and re-limit my bike with ease. That could be useful for two reasons. Firstly if stopped I could re-limit and hopefully this wouldn't be noticed, but more importantly in the Summer I am happy to go at the standard speed and pedal more, but in the Winter I want to get to work asap as it's colder. Anyone think that sounds possible? I am assuming the wires are nothing special to the limiter.
October 27, 200619 yr Author Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch. WARNING I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any possible damage to the controller. Edited November 2, 200619 yr by flecc
October 27, 200619 yr That's a very important point there!! I wonder if releasing the throttle so no power is being applied and then flicking the switch would be ok? Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch. WARNING I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any posible damage to the controller.
October 27, 200619 yr Yes I intend to do the same, however I have two questions... Does anyone know of a suitable handlebar mounting switch? Does anyone know where to source the same type of connector as the link, that way I won't have to cut the wires and avoid any warranty issues hinted at above. Ian Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch. WARNING I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any posible damage to the controller.
October 27, 200619 yr Yes, I'd be very interested in anyone's experiences on this and any parts they used. I'm not particulary handy myself, and although I'll get around to doing it one day I'll procrastinate out of fear of screwing it up.
October 27, 200619 yr Author Safe Switching and Switch Sources Cutting the power before switching will help to give protection, but it depends on where the throttle is situated in the sequence, it won't necessarily affect the limiter link/controller relationship, so still an element of risk. Re: A handlebar switch, a motorcycle dealer could be tried since those vehicles have to have waterproof switches. Some m'bikes have independent engine cutout switches on the handlebar, and these are single pole on/off, just what's needed. The bar diameter is often larger at up to 30 mm, but the clip might be alterable or it could have a bit of sleeve. The motorcycle dealer might even point you to a bike breaker where a few pence could fix you up.
October 27, 200619 yr Author The different types of connectors are a nightmare to match, on two twistgrips probaly from the same manufacturer, the seemingly identical connectors had different pin alignments! The best way to dodge around this without cutting off the connector is to slit the insulation of the wires going into the rear of the connector and solder in at that point. Then the wires could be desoldered and insulation used to disguise the wire access.
October 30, 200619 yr You have to love the internet when you can find somewhere talking about fitting a switch to toggle between limited and delimited on an obscure electric assist bike!! I want to fit a switch like this on my Torq. I have identified the terminals in the controller since I opened it up for major surgery some weeks ago. I just want to find a suitable swicth. Maplin only have PCB mounted stuff. To use one of thoswe would nean having an unsightly box to mount it into? Any more joy on the motorbike cutout side of things?
October 30, 200619 yr Author Not yet, I still haven't got round to doing mine due to being busy on so many things. Were you thinking of mounting direct on the controller box, oobs? If so, the motorbike ones would be too big and clumsy, they're strictly a handlebar job.
October 30, 200619 yr Author oobs How about this Maplin solution: Sub miniature toggle switch FH00A Fully waterproof top for above JR79L Both currently listed, they seem to be a likely compact solution, but need mounting somewhere.
February 28, 200719 yr A switch for delimiter Hi all: I came across a likely suitable switch (judge for yourselves) and what is more it has a 22 mm band to fit a Torq handlebar. You can find it at: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/mcycle- 2/mcycle-2.html It is No. 2 on the list Trouble is it is not 'modern' being a bit retro. Peter
February 28, 200719 yr Author Nice one Peter, I thought motor cycle switches could give a solution. The above link is broken though, here it is corrected. .
February 28, 200719 yr What prompted my thread entry was that a local officer who'd seen me riding electric bikes for years and normally taken no notice, was obviously following me at just over 20 mph, albeit with me pedalling. Luckily I use a bar end mirror in my urban area and spotted him, so I simulated both huge pedalling effort and gradually lost speed, faking out of breath as he then passed. That's my favorite trick , although I haven't as yet noticed any police actually watching me I do it as a precautionary measure. I suppose mirrors are essential for high speed ebike riding. In over 20 years of cycling I've only once been stopped by the police and that was for not having lights. I was 16 at the time and they were pretty nice about, infact, given how silly it was maybe too nice. I'm guessing that electric bikes really aren't on the police radar at all. Infact I really wonder how many people know my bike is electric and how many just think I'm a superfit cyclist. Do they(police) even have the kit to check for speed in car? And even if they did they'd have to prove that it was the motor and not pedalling. I can't see how they'd do that without siezeing the bike and taking it in for an analysis. I think all this might become an issue if electric bikes become really popular and invevitably, we will have people riding badly at 22mph and causing accidents/scaring people etc. That said, if ebikes actually become popular we might just have the political clout to bring in more just laws.
February 28, 200719 yr The only time the local bobbies have been interested in my bike was before xmas when they were attending an accident. They were most impressed by my lights (HID x 2) and didn't even notice the bike was electric! And even if they did they'd have to prove that it was the motor and not pedalling. I can't see how they'd do that without siezeing the bike and taking it in for an analysis.That's the crux of it. How could anyone prove what was providing the power at the time, the bike, the rider or both and in what ratio? The 15mph is essentially meanlingless and unenforcable. The only way it could work is if the bike is motor driven only and has active braking to prevent it exceeding the speed limit. We all know how likely that is to happen! Even if they tested the bike with power only and it exceeded 15mph that still wouldn't change anything. I can get in any car right now and easily exceed the speed limit, many cars have the ability now to do more than twice the limit.
February 28, 200719 yr I think if they could prove that the bike had the ability to go above 15mph then they could sieze it and presumably charge you with riding an unlicensed motor vehicle regardless of whether they actually clock you going faster than 15mph? Aside of the actual law I think you'd really have to annoy a cop to have them sieze your bicycle.
February 28, 200719 yr Nigel I am not worried about going over the speed limit as others have said what difference is there when a racing cyclist goes wizzing by at 20mph at least on the torq you would be more in control at that speed:D That could change if there were a rash of accidents with people mostly on the torq but we are a sensible bunch:eek: and not speed freaks:) so i say make more bikes with speed limiters at least we have a choice? nigel.
February 28, 200719 yr I think if they could prove that the bike had the ability to go above 15mph then they could sieze it and presumably charge you with riding an unlicensed motor vehicle regardless of whether they actually clock you going faster than 15mph? I guess that is the million dollar question! To complicate matters further, how would the law deal with an individual who has changed the gearing or the wheel size with the side-effect of a greater top speed before the motor cuts out?
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