Ebikes in China

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
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Brighton
The sound of the constant desperate beeping of car horns gives its the impression of a very frustrating place for normal motorist with so many cycles/e-bike/scooters on the road. Could be London 10yrs down the line, but with car lanes.
 
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morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
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Worcestershire
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Well it's just as well they all have e-bikes and can't yet afford cars... maybe in 10 years from now China will be like London! Where the e-bikes are swapped for cars!
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Well it's just as well they all have e-bikes and can't yet afford cars... maybe in 10 years from now China will be like London! Where the e-bikes are swapped for cars!

that is exactly what is going to happen and the emissions will burn up the planet.....
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
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that is exactly what is going to happen and the emissions will burn up the planet.....
I wonder what will happen as China's massive population enjoys greater wealth and spending power.. the state will have to put high taxes on cars or something to deter ownership? (if you subscribe to the declining oil production/rising cost stories, perhaps cars will be too expensive to run anyway). Perhaps by then, cars will be electric or hybrid energy efficient?
 

dmcgoldrick

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2010
446
-1
Makes for interesting viewing.

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Ebike Commuting in China

[video=youtube;_rfKNcoEsaM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rfKNcoEsaM&feature=player_embedded#![/video]

Jerry
was in shanghai 20 years ago and it was all pedal cycles and motorbikes......some cars but not many......my ex colleagues who are there now tell me its all cars and electric scooters......normal cycling now very much a very minor feature......
the near future will probably be more combustion engine cars in china....followed by increases in electric cars as that technology develops.
interesting how europe and america are going back to cycles (many made in china !!) to try and solve the congestion (charges) and pollution in the big cities........
china probably now has a 20 year boom in car use, just like happened in india.........

regards
 

JuicyBike

Trade Member
Jan 26, 2009
1,671
527
Derbyshire
The sound of the constant desperate beeping of car horns gives its the impression of a very frustrating place for normal motorist with so many cycles/e-bike/scooters on the road. Could be London 10yrs down the line, but with car lanes.
Horns are used quite differently in China to the UK. Used to warn rather than accuse, rather like the friendly bike bell.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
was in shanghai 20 years ago and it was all pedal cycles and motorbikes......some cars but not many......my ex colleagues who are there now tell me its all cars and electric scooters......normal cycling now very much a very minor feature......
the near future will probably be more combustion engine cars in china....followed by increases in electric cars as that technology develops.
interesting how europe and america are going back to cycles (many made in china !!) to try and solve the congestion (charges) and pollution in the big cities........
china probably now has a 20 year boom in car use, just like happened in india.........

regards
I was going through a book I have of photographs of my town how it looked many years ago.. most of the photos are 1930's to 1950's, but some earlier ones...to turn of the 20th century... in all the high street town photos there's loads of bicycles, but not a car in sight. In fact I'm not even sure cars would have been allowed on what is the main road past all the shops, it's more like a cobble way! It probably would have been a strange sight to see a car. I'll have to scan a picture so you can see the strange bikes.
 
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morphix

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Oct 24, 2010
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Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Horns are used quite differently in China to the UK. Used to warn rather than accuse, rather like the friendly bike bell.
Does China have any proper regulations of roads and traffic laws, or does anything go?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,224
30,621
Does China have any proper regulations of roads and traffic laws, or does anything go?
They are beginning to improve on these. There is an intention to wipe out their form of e-bike which is of course a scooter/moped, and introduce the EU type rules which would only allow proper e-bikes of the type we ride. As you can imagine this has met huge opposition, but there's no doubt the government will get it's way in the end. Meanwhile some of there cities ban all e-bikes and in their largest cities there are e-bike bans on some major city routes in order to allow free flow for cars. There's no doubt all the bias is in favour of cars and their roads expenditure is immense. Already they are number three in the world for their road network size and I heard a report that they have more expressway mileage than anyone else.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
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Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
They are beginning to improve on these. There is an intention to wipe out their form of e-bike which is of course a scooter/moped, and introduce the EU type rules which would only allow proper e-bikes of the type we ride. As you can imagine this has met huge opposition, but there's no doubt the government will get it's way in the end. Meanwhile some of there cities ban all e-bikes and in their largest cities there are e-bike bans on some major city routes in order to allow free flow for cars. There's no doubt all the bias is in favour of cars and their roads expenditure is immense. Already they are number three in the world for their road network size and I heard a report that they have more expressway mileage than anyone else.
Phew that's strange and concerning to read. It's odd how they anti e-bike in some parts and pro-cars.. it seems they favour rapid progress at any cost? Environmental concerns and future infrastructure problems/costs seem to be low down on China's priorities (with a population their size and their rapid economic growth you think the contrary).. They resisted Co2 reduction targets as I recall and said West should PAY them to reduce it, to compensate for them being a developing economy, or else that we should all reduce ours more to compensate for theirs, something like that ;-) China wants its day in the sun and it's not slowing down for anyone! In fairness to China though, they do a lot for environmental protection/sustainability and clean energy where they can I've heard.. they're starting off on the right footing.

I guess it's sensible for them to adapt the EU approach on e-bikes though and get these moped things which are basically electric motorbikes off the roads, unless they're licensed.
 
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Ajax

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2008
316
31
They are beginning to improve on these. There is an intention to wipe out their form of e-bike which is of course a scooter/moped, and introduce the EU type rules which would only allow proper e-bikes of the type we ride. As you can imagine this has met huge opposition, but there's no doubt the government will get it's way in the end. Meanwhile some of there cities ban all e-bikes and in their largest cities there are e-bike bans on some major city routes in order to allow free flow for cars. There's no doubt all the bias is in favour of cars and their roads expenditure is immense. Already they are number three in the world for their road network size and I heard a report that they have more expressway mileage than anyone else.
Those bikes are naturally going to be heavier than conventional e-bikes, so i'm guessing the motors are a bit more substantial than our 250w. Is there any word on the speeds these things are limited to, or does anything go?

Wow! The future of electric transport, don't you just love it? ;)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,224
30,621
Those bikes are naturally going to be heavier than conventional e-bikes, so i'm guessing the motors are a bit more substantial than our 250w. Is there any word on the speeds these things are limited to, or does anything go?

Wow! The future of electric transport, don't you just love it? ;)
They are mostly around 700 watts rating or slightly less. I don't think they have any limiting but most run to about 20 mph.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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The e-bike in China is a motorised scooter,with power 700-1800 watts and big lead acid batteries,they are very fast,up to 40mph. There are thousands of accidents and many fatalities. There are millions in every chinese city,mostly ridden by young people.They are often badly ridden and ignore traffic flow directions,that is why the government wishes to eliminate them and replace them with EN15194 spec bicycles.
Some musings I have noted on my chinese trips.
They often 'steal' the electricity from their employer-I once walked behind a department store in Houjie(near Guangzhou),there was a single cable from an upstairs window connected to several multi plugs charging a dozen or so bikes,the root cable was hot.
At roundabouts there is an outer lane which allows traffic to go against the traffic flow,cut the corner rather than going the long way round!
If they are building a new town or industrial estate they build a 6 lane highway to it-sometimes the development is not a success,its a strange site a motorway with only one bicycle on it.
One of my suppliers wanted to go to the factory next door,which involved driving down the road,round the junction,up the other side and round the next junction-he drove the wrong way against the traffic,not up the hard shoulder but in the fast lane-nobody seemed bothered,just the norm.
The chinese have no patience when driving,if the adjacent lane appears faster they force their way in,then force their way back and so on,they all do it! In the UK it would cause massive road rage but nobody gets annoyed. Because they are swopping lanes continously,they seem to have good 360 degree vision,the taxi drivers are the worst,but despite this you rarely see accidents. Accidents seem to occur mainly between cars and pedestrians,young girls in particular take terrible risks crossing fast roads.
You can buy a bike in China for £30,the scooter style e-bikes are less than £200 but the e-bicycle with a lithium battery is £400 plus-its easy to see the prefered attraction of a 30mph 700 watt e-scooter over a restricted 15mph 250 watt bicycle,which costs twice as much to a young chinese.
The growth of the car already is causing gridlock in major cities,Shanghai and Guangzhou are much busier than London,they have built expressways high above the buildings making double level roads,but their is just too many cars already-I understand 1 in 7 have a car,if they get to our level of ownership the country will be at permanent gridlock.
The bicycle is considered the peasants transport which is why the e-bikes look like scooters,which are considered cool.
Their cities do not have cycle lanes,they urgently need to have a dutch attitude to bicycles,they need to get everyone who currently rides the scooters and those who can afford cars to see bicycle style e-bikes as an attractive form of transport-some of the e-bikes being presented at the cycle shows are certainly sexier in styling but most of these are currently exported.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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If you look on the video that started this thread,at about minute 2.05 to 2.12 are some e-bikes that look like mini mopeds. I had a good look over them at one of the shows,they would appear with only 250 watts power to meet EN15194 standard but with my weight they were very slow.With a big lead acid battery they weigh 35-40 kilos. They have a pillion seat,not sure whether you are legally allowed a pillion seat on a bicycle?
Chinese people are generally very small and light so for them 250 watt is ok but we are generally bigger,they were almost impossible to ride without power.
So I rejected the idea of importing them,but they are very cheap-would sell here for about £300-350.
What do others think of them?
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

rog_london

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2009
764
2
Harrow, Middlesex
I returned from Ghana a week ago. Driving there is a bit of a culture shock if you're not used to it. As a 'regular' I'm well accustomed....

I've never seen an ebike there. I don't expect to - with the sun almost vertical overhead in the middle of the day batteries get cooked - you're lucky to get two years out of a car battery. Also the roads are, shall we say, variable as to their standard of maintenance. Huge potholes rule. And, it's very very busy in the capital Accra. There are a very few Chinese lead-acid scooters.

Quite a few bicycles though - a dangerous pastime. I usually ride a motorbike but you need to keep your eyes well peeled at all times. The only saving grace is that other road users accept that it's unwise to run into a white man - well, most of them do. The police would take a dim view.

I bought a Chinese 125 motorbike this time while I was there - £500 brand new. The Ghanaians say they're so cheap because they're 'old technology' but that's not strictly true - they do have carburettors and no catalytic converters, but then again lead-free petrol is not sold by all stations and is a good deal more expensive than leaded so they don't have a use for Western style pollution control. Also said bike is otherwise very well specified - electric and kick start, rev counter, five speed gearbox, a really LOUD anti theft device, digital gear indicator....

The Chinese have totally taken over the small motorbike market - with prices like that it's not surprising. They are even used as very cheap taxis. Not by me though - being on the back of a suicidal Ghanaian taxi rider isn't my idea of fun.

The import duty system heavily favours motorbikes - there's only 12.5% VAT to pay. If you import anything with more than two wheels there are in addition punitive import duties which escalate for any vehicle other than a motorbike which is more than ten years old.

Rog.