E-Bikes, the cost case

If you need to retain a car there isn't one !

 

My car, BMW 330D, running costs (fuel, servicing, consumables) based on 5 year historic analysis is £0.20 per mile

 

My electric bike:

1st year depreciation (60% of purchase price) £510 (2nd & 3rd years 20% & 20%)

Saddle £25

Tyres £18

Mudguards £37

Bottom bracket £30

Replacement back wheel and motor £95

Misc £50

 

for 2000 miles a year:

Year 1 Car £400 Ebike £765

Year 2 Car £400 Ebike £220

Year 3 Car £400 Ebike £220

 

Total Car £1,200 Ebike £1,205

 

This is based on a 3 year life because I think the bike will have little value then, and it's also obviously based on a fairly cheap bike. If spending thousands the cost case is even worse.

 

Having dispelled the myth about saving money I still think it's a good thing to do for health and environmental reasons, and I'm very grateful for it getting me back into real cycling with a recently purchased road bike.

 

cheers

Alan

I might be be missing it but I can't see the figures for depreciation of the BMW, or the annual insurance cost, or the VED cost. So you can evidently run your BMW for less than £8 a week. If that's the case I'm off to buy a BMW new.

If you need to retain a car there isn't one !

 

My car, BMW 330D, running costs (fuel, servicing, consumables) based on 5 year historic analysis is £0.20 per mile

 

My electric bike:

1st year depreciation (60% of purchase price) £510 (2nd & 3rd years 20% & 20%)

Saddle £25

Tyres £18

Mudguards £37

Bottom bracket £30

Replacement back wheel and motor £95

Misc £50

 

for 2000 miles a year:

Year 1 Car £400 Ebike £765

Year 2 Car £400 Ebike £220

Year 3 Car £400 Ebike £220

 

Total Car £1,200 Ebike £1,205

 

This is based on a 3 year life because I think the bike will have little value then, and it's also obviously based on a fairly cheap bike. If spending thousands the cost case is even worse.

 

Having dispelled the myth about saving money I still think it's a good thing to do for health and environmental reasons, and I'm very grateful for it getting me back into real cycling with a recently purchased road bike.

 

cheers

Alan

 

 

What about depreciation of car, insurance,road tax ?

 

Assuming 40 mpg (highly unlikely) the fuel alone is £300 so really dont see where you are getting 20p a mile from ? (AA figures are usually at least 40p a mile even for a small car).

 

Of course your average per mile in car is almost certainly based on the fact that you do far more than 2000 miles a year in the car so spreading these other costs over more miles ?

 

How do the figures stack up if you assume that you only do 2000 miles a year in car ?

 

so full years depreciation,tax,insurance,servicing and fuel for 2000 miles all count ?

 

By the way I do agree that if already have the expense of running a car that there is no/limited real savings in owning a ebike but feel your figures dont show the whole picture and will vary enormously from one person to another.

Edited October 24, 201213 yr by GaRRy

I would say an e-bike if properly looked after should last more than 3 years. Granted the battery will need replacing and tyres which are consumable items... but the bike itself should last many years and the motor presumably if the bike is used and stored properly... hair dryers..washing machines etc have motors and they can last 7-10 years.. I'm curious to know how long people have owned bikes here...I'm sure I've heard a few people having bikes longer than 5-6 years..

The errors and omissions with the figures prove only that there's a bit of bias

 

However .. maybe you don't tax and insure the car, which would help with the sums

Edited October 24, 201213 yr by Old_Dave

Even if you had to replace the motor on your e-bike every 4 years say, considering how cheap motors are or complete kits, still a much cheaper option for all the miles you'd get, compared to the cost of changing the engine in a car..and there's no maintenance or service costs with e-bikes, cars have to be MOT'd and serviced regularly new parts etc

@ GaRRy. You feel that after 3 years an ebike will be of "very little value". So as a gesture of goodwill, I will give you a tenner for it, and pay the courier. Just to demonstrate my generosity, I will extend the same service to any member if this forum.

I recognise that there are other scrap metal services available. Terms and conditions apply.

@ GaRRy. You feel that after 3 years an ebike will be of "very little value". So as a gesture of goodwill, I will give you a tenner for it, and pay the courier. Just to demonstrate my generosity, I will extend the same service to any member if this forum.

I recognise that there are other scrap metal services available. Terms and conditions apply.

 

Who me? I intend to be using my ebikes for far more than 3 years.

 

Im working on 5 years 10,000 miles minimum per bike (allowing for new batteries etc) and even after that time I expect the bike to still be worth more than a tenner.

 

I think you mean Alan

working knees and legs again priceless.

bike cost 4000euro -10kg = 400euro a kg priceless.

In ten months of actuall riding 4776km

going to work monday in mist and having the sun burn of the mist

and suddenly its 20c and autum in all its glory can not put a price on it.

some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I might be be missing it but I can't see the figures for depreciation of the BMW, or the annual insurance cost, or the VED cost. So you can evidently run your BMW for less than £8 a week. If that's the case I'm off to buy a BMW new.

 

I incur these costs anyway, having or not having the eBike makes no difference, if I keep the car. So not appropriate to include them for comparison purposes.

 

My costs for running the car are accurate, I keep records of all expenditure. I do around 10,000 miles a year, and the car does 43mpg. If I run the bike for 2,000 miles I end up doing 8,000 miles in the car. It doesn't save anything in tax, insurance, or depreciation.

Edited October 24, 201213 yr by Alan B

There are some Powabykes and Panasonic motored e-bikes still giving daily service after 10 years, so a few models do last longer, but it has to be admitted that most get nowhere near that life economically.

 

However, I take your point Alan, e-bikes are not a very cheap form of transport as so many have discovered to their cost. Quite a few who've tried them have abandoned e-bikes in favour of scooters or light motorbikes which can be more economical and certainly more practical in many cases.

 

Lithium battery prices and their often short lives have been the real killer for e-bikes, especially when owners wish to retain the convenience of using the correct integrated battery. An over £500 battery used for daily commuting which not unusually fails by two years old throws £5 a week straight into the cost equation. For the many who need to use a bike shop for their routine maintenance as they would a garage to maintain their car, that just increases the pain.

 

Add the cost of a mid level e-bike at about £1500 capable of perhaps five years of the essential good reliability use for commuting at economic maintenance costs and the combination of battery and depreciation easily reaches £11 a week. Add bike shop maintenance charges with the spares and tyres used over the five years, plus the public transport on the occasions the bike was off the road and the end result is far from cheap.

 

For those who get rid of a car and buy an e-bike instead, the savings are very real, but anyone buying an e-bike as well as keeping the car in the hope of cutting overall transport costs is doomed to disappointment. That just makes life more costly.

I incur these costs anyway, having or not having the eBike makes no difference, if I keep the car. So not appropriate to include them for comparison purposes.

 

My costs for running the car are accurate, I keep records of all expenditure. I do around 10,000 miles a year, and the car does 43mpg. If I run the bike for 2,000 miles I end up doing 8,000 miles in the car. It doesn't save anything in tax, insurance, or depreciation.

 

As I said you have not included any of the costs that you would incur any way from owning a car. Not saying this makes your figures wrong but this does need to be stated to give the complete picture.

 

Just out of interest have you also included car parking charges ?

@GaRRy. Sorry, yes I did mean Alan. No malice intended to either party.

@GaRRy. Sorry, yes I did mean Alan. No malice intended to either party.

 

oh go on lets bring this thread down to the level of some of the others going on and on and on at the moment

Very good point Flecc about Scooters and Light Motorcycles being better value for certain trips . I still have my 50 cc Suzuki that I bought over 30 years ago and it still goes well and is probably worth more now than when I bought it . I am now retired so don`t need to go anywhere in particular and that`s where the Ebike comes in . For the trips up to 5 or even 10 miles I now take the Ebike instead . With the latest small Auto Honda Scooters with mpg approaching the Honda Scooterettes of 40 years ago ie 150-160 mpg , the Ebikes have some competition for commuting . The leisure market is different and this is likely to be more price sensitive , particularly if you already have a conventional bicycle . This is where the Juicy , Kudos and Woosh people come in .

Alan, you forgot to includes some statistics in your calculations.

 

Electric bike + rider = 100% excellent fun

 

BMW + driver = 100% boring

 

BTW eddieo likes this

Anyone biting yet?

 

:D :D

Bike Europe - Bosch Enters E-Scooter Market

As yselmike said, the health benefits are massive, if you can diy batteries they drop to about 100 pound (I don't appear to have a pound symbol on my keyboard) replacement cost.

And riding just makes me happy.

 

Proviso I don't commute due to having company car and carrying tools etc.

Alan, looking at your figures, may I make a suggestion, you will be much better off if you buy an electric bike that is one year old. This will make (over a 2 year cycle) Car - £800 Ebike - £440.

 

I have owned my Powabyke for 5 years it was 2 years old when I bought it for £250. This year has been expensive I have replaced the SLAs with a 11ah lifpo imported from Germany £210 and a bottom bracket axle (difficult to source, thanks Frank! ) for £20, other than that I have replaced the SLAs twice, tyres, brake blocks and re-greased the motor and wheel bearings. Mileage around 6,000 a year. It don't look good but it's cheap and (kiss of death) reliable. The only car I can compare it with is the wife's and she only let's me near that to service it

 

So my advise is, let the wealthy folk among us buy the new bikes, when they get fed up with them they can sell them to us paupers. Everyone is happy

some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

If only my bike had space for a bumper-sticker saying that!

E Biking is pleasure driving is a pain

For those who get rid of a car and buy an e-bike instead, the savings are very real, but anyone buying an e-bike as well as keeping the car in the hope of cutting overall transport costs is doomed to disappointment. That just makes life more costly.

 

Yes indeed .. it's very clinical just to look at this in terms of car vs. bike costs but I'm one of those who has ditched the car. I got rid of it about a month ago now. It was 5 years old £13k when new, and had to top up what it fetched to buy the bike. Not expecting to save money over the 1st year on insurance or depreciation at all. However, I'm saving a fortune in parking, parking tickets and fuel especially on short trips around town. If I have to travel further afield by train then as long as it's irregular the costs are roughly the same as using the car provided it's not in peak times.

 

The biggest consequence of getting the bike is that I've completely changed my horizons and lifestyle on account of having it. Used to take the car here, there and everywhere around the country every week with astronomic fuel bills, and drive way too tired to avoid cost of nights away. Sometimes the travel was for work (changed that too as part of it all) but mostly for recreation. So I've scaled down the range of things I do and found new things too (aside from the bike itself which is always a recreation even on necessary trips ). Most cost fractions of what I used to spend, so the indirect savings from the lifestyle change are enormous.

 

It was also far too easy to drive to the airport and pop abroad for a couple of days, roughly once a month. I can't reconcile the costs and time-inefficiency of getting to airports on public transport now so haven't bothered. Getting rid of the car has forced me to look locally for what is on my doorstep and make the most of that instead. It might not suit forever but for at least a year I'm going to stick with it and there's loads to keep me interested.

 

In short, the amount of money I won't spend by having a car to jump into and hair off in is very considerable. Not to mention the eye-watering tobacco bill I'm saving myself as driving brought on an incurable urge to smoke. I can still get a lift if I really need one, within reason, which is nice as I've spent years giving free lifts to other people.

 

Variable financial costs of bike vs car ownership = no brainer.

Indirect benefits of bike = incalculable

 

E Biking is pleasure driving is a pain

 

How very true. I find being a car passenger even worse. Spent all of a trip home from a day out last weekend wishing I was cycling home instead .

Edited October 25, 201213 yr by 103Alex1

One cheap solution to control cost is long term rental from Woosh.

Minimum rental is 2 months.

We rent out Woosh Monos for £30 per month, suitable for very short daily commute, up to 6 miles/day (eg to railway stations). For longer commute, up to 12 miles/day Woosh Siroccos for £45 per month.

Delivery of your bike costs £17 if needed.

 

Hatti

Yes indeed .. it's very clinical just to look at this in terms of car vs. bike costs but I'm one of those who has ditched the car. I got rid of it about a month ago now. It was 5 years old £13k when new, and had to top up what it fetched to buy the bike. Not expecting to save money over the 1st year on insurance or depreciation at all. However, I'm saving a fortune in parking, parking tickets and fuel especially on short trips around town. If I have to travel further afield by train then as long as it's irregular the costs are roughly the same as using the car provided it's not in peak times.

 

The biggest consequence of getting the bike is that I've completely changed my horizons and lifestyle on account of having it. Used to take the car here, there and everywhere around the country every week with astronomic fuel bills, and drive way too tired to avoid cost of nights away. Sometimes the travel was for work (changed that too as part of it all) but mostly for recreation. So I've scaled down the range of things I do and found new things too (aside from the bike itself which is always a recreation even on necessary trips ). Most cost fractions of what I used to spend, so the indirect savings from the lifestyle change are enormous.

 

It was also far too easy to drive to the airport and pop abroad for a couple of days, roughly once a month. I can't reconcile the costs and time-inefficiency of getting to airports on public transport now so haven't bothered. Getting rid of the car has forced me to look locally for what is on my doorstep and make the most of that instead. It might not suit forever but for at least a year I'm going to stick with it and there's loads to keep me interested.

 

In short, the amount of money I won't spend by having a car to jump into and hair off in is very considerable. Not to mention the eye-watering tobacco bill I'm saving myself as driving brought on an incurable urge to smoke. I can still get a lift if I really need one, within reason, which is nice as I've spent years giving free lifts to other people.

 

Variable financial costs of bike vs car ownership = no brainer.

Indirect benefits of bike = incalculable

 

 

 

How very true. I find being a car passenger even worse. Spent all of a trip home from a day out last weekend wishing I was cycling home instead .

 

 

 

 

Blimey Alex, I feel I could have written very much the same story!

 

I empathise with every sentiment you have expressed and I love your choice of bike. Although I have recently changed my car, (can't do without one) there are just so many shortish trips, a bit too far to walk which, had I not purchased an ebike, would have been undertaken by car. Although, overall, the economics are good, the other benefits which I consider to be direct rather than indirect, are as described.

 

Ebike, bus pass, judiciously selected rail travel and learning how to fly with only hand luggage on budget airlines......all put together, the world is one's whelk and that has to be the way to go for older people.

 

After seeing yesterday's headline suggesting older people should be forced to work for their pensions, I'm left to wonder how much longer this "golden age" can last so I think we older ones should enjoy it all while we still have the opportunity. Incidentally, I thought I had already done the work and earned my right to a pension.

 

Indalo