DVSA take companies to Court for selling illegal bikes.

[KirstinS]

Not surprising when the government unwisely permits the hire of 500 watt powered scooters, leaving the door wide open for all manner of associated illegality.

They've opened Pandora's box and I can't see how they are going to close it again, now there are hundreds of thousands of illegal two wheelers of all kinds in private ownership.
.

Agree with that, can't see how much can be done. Though rise of deliverroo and others predated the scooters. In cities and towns there are rows of 1000w conversions with dual/triple batteries strapped to low quality bikes used by delivery guys. In London yesterday I saw two bikes in the heart of the City with petrol engine conversions that made a hellova racket. Went past a few police who took zero interest.

I guess some regulation, occasional localised seizure of illegal machines and some very limited prosecution of the worst sellers by dvla is about the most that seems likely over the next few years. At least to me anyway

 

[StuartsProjects]

Though rise of deliverroo and others predated the scooters. In cities and towns there are rows of 1000w conversions with dual/triple batteries strapped to low quality bikes used by delivery guys.

And there is an example which demonstrates the lack of interest or willingness to enforce the law.

It must be obvious and very easy to catch the users of illegal hi-power eBikes, just hang around a Burger bar or similar in the centre of a town and they will come.

 

[KirstinS]

And there is an example which demonstrates the lack of interest or willingness to enforce the law.

It must be obvious and very easy to catch the users of illegal hi-power eBikes, just hang around a Burger bar or similar in the centre of a town and they will come.

Being a somewhat early adopter of all forms of electric personal transport, I bought a SLA powered scooter (chain driven and weighed about 48tons) when I was 20 and living on brick Lane just outside the City of London (I'm 45 now)

I made it about 50 yards into the City on a Sunday morning. Literally now one anywhere. Pulled by cops within 2 minutes and given a warning. Push it home and never be seen again or we take it off you. I didnt have the knowledge on legalities I do now !

And I was basically a celebrity , no-one had seen anything like it before

**edit - I should add it still lives ! My dad is 75 and lives mostly on boat in Greece, I converted it to a lithium pack with a bms that I built and he uses it to get around marinas **

 

[sjpt]

And there is an example which demonstrates the lack of interest or willingness to enforce the law.

It must be obvious and very easy to catch the users of illegal hi-power eBikes, just hang around a Burger bar or similar in the centre of a town and they will come.

Unfortunately, that applies to most laws. Catching people is probably quite easy. BUT ... I wonder how much paperwork a policeman (or policewoman) is involved in to move things to successful prosecution.

 

[flecc]

Unfortunately, that applies to most laws. Catching people is probably quite easy. BUT ... I wonder how much paperwork a policeman (or policewoman) is involved in to move things to successful prosecution.

I don't think it is all that difficult, but once again parliament is to blame. Police officers used to be completely used to doing the paperwork to bring a charge, but the advent of fixed penalties with a simple roadside form a while ago has made them lazy.

Now anything more than that is too much bother.

The latest automated roadside digital speed cameras are even worse, since they do the lot, nabbing the offender and issuing the letter and penalty. Even the alternative option of an online safety course for the offender instead of a fine has been privatised, run by outside companies.

There's no longer policing as we once knew it, when officers enjoyed charging any offender with any offence.
.

 

[vidtek]

I don't think it is all that difficult, but once again parliament is to blame. Police officers used to be completely used to doing the paperwork to bring a charge, but the advent of fixed penalties with a simple roadside form a while ago has made them lazy.

Now anything more than that is too much bother.

The latest automated roadside digital speed cameras are even worse, since they do the lot, nabbing the offender and issuing the letter and penalty. Even the alternative option of an online safety course for the offender instead of a fine has been privatised, run by outside companies.

There's no longer policing as we once knew it, when officers enjoyed charging any offender with any offence.
.

You may be a little bit harsh there. The police have had an exponential amount of duties to fulfill since austerity. They are now the government arm of last resort and are expected to cope with all the loonies, sorry persons with mental issues that have been released back into the general population, as well as all the homeless druggies, dossers and tossers with their mangy dogs and manky mattresses that now colourfully adorn all our town and city centres. Added to this is the woke agenda they are expected to police now, with LBGT and race issues taking top priority all with a reduction in manpower and budgets.
I don't think it's a case of them being lazy at all, more a case of being overwhelmed with all their new duties on top of their normal policing. I don't think they "enjoyed" being able to charge any offender with any offence.
I think the average copper does what he or she can with the limited time and resources at their command. For me the real issue is the top echelons of the force being totally out of touch with what the general public consider their priorities, and placing way too many resources on peripheral LBGT, woke and minor verbal abuse race issues, instead of thief taking , crimes against the person and home burglaries being the issues the general public want to be treated as their number one priority.

 

[flecc]

I don't think it's a case of them being lazy at all, more a case of being overwhelmed with all their new duties on top of their normal policing.

While I recorded an Agree with your post overall, there is a lot of ignoring going on. As my best friend here, a Met police officer said when I asked him how he was dealing with the Covid regulations, "Nothing to do with me" he said, laughing, making it clear he was completely ignoring them. And as KirstinS says above, even the easiest ways of dealing with very illegal two wheelers is being ignored. It takes but a moment to tell riders to get off and walk the illegal machine away, with the warning that next time they won't be so lucky, but they cant be bothered.

I don't think they "enjoyed" being able to charge any offender with any offence.

Here a big disagree, oh yes they did enjoy it !!

Back in the '50s and early '60s when there was no national speed limit, just a 30 limit in built up areas, often designated only by where the lamp posts were less than 250 feet apart, they used to love entrapment. Hiding in their Wolseley in a side road in such a spot, they shoot out onto the tail of anyone doing a little over 30. Hearing the ding-a-ling of the bell on the front of their car I'd know I was about to be the victim. No matter how minor there was never a warning, every time it was prosecution to appear in court or write to the court apologising and pleading guilty.

The beat officers also had their favourite way of entrapment. With hardly any traffic on the roads there were lots of T shaped Halt, Major Road Head signs uselessly at many road junctions even where all the roads were minor. Officers would hide behind the hedge or fence of a corner building and jump out arm up if the wheels of a vehicle were still fractionally turning or if a motorcyclist didn't firmly plant a foot onto ground at the junction, petty in the extreme. Again never a warning, a charge to court every time.

My earliest Yellow cover and later Red cover paper booklet licences still bear these petty endorsements. The £3 fine doesn't sound much, but when I was earning one pound five shillings a six day working week (£1.25 now) it hurt, just as the officers very obvious pleasure at nicking me did.
.

 

[vidtek]

While I recorded an Agree with your post overall, there is a lot of ignoring going on. As my best friend here, a Met police officer said when I asked him how he was dealing with the Covid regulations, "Nothing to do with me" he said, laughing, making it clear he was completely ignoring them. And as KirstinS says above, even the easiest ways of dealing with very illegal two wheelers is being ignored. It takes but a moment to tell riders to get off and walk the illegal machine away, with the warning that next time they won't be so lucky, but they cant be bothered.



Here a big disagree, oh yes they did enjoy it !!

Back in the '50s and early '60s when there was no national speed limit, just a 30 limit in built up areas, often designated only by where the lamp posts were less than 250 feet apart, they used to love entrapment. Hiding in their Wolseley in a side road in such a spot, they shoot out onto the tail of anyone doing a little over 30. Hearing the ding-a-ling of the bell on the front of their car I'd know I was about to be the victim. No matter how minor there was never a warning, every time it was prosecution to appear in court or write to the court apologising and pleading guilty.

The beat officers also had their favourite way of entrapment. With hardly any traffic on the roads there were lots of T shaped Halt, Major Road Head signs uselessly at many road junctions even where all the roads were minor. Officers would hide behind the hedge or fence of a corner building and jump out arm up if the wheels of a vehicle were still fractionally turning or if a motorcyclist didn't firmly plant a foot onto ground at the junction, petty in the extreme. Again never a warning, a charge to court every time.

My earliest Yellow cover and later Red cover paper booklet licences still bear these petty endorsements. The £3 fine doesn't sound much, but when I was earning one pound five shillings a six day working week (£1.25 now) it hurt, just as the officers very obvious pleasure at nicking me did.
.

Maybe it depends on where you lived and the general attitude of the cheif constable at the time. I really can't say I had any issues with our local Bournemouth police back in the '60's, in fact I had an old CZ (Jawa) 350 motorbike (and used to push it more than riding it heavy old beast it was) And I recall one incident when I screamed round a corner straight into an Ford Anglia panda car, I made quite a dent. The coppers spoke very sternly to me and gave me a long lecture, but let me off with a warning. The Western Australian police never issue warnings, always a ticket when I was there 1982 to 2014.
Maybe you were unlucky or had a bit of an attitude? It was always yes sir threebags full sir when I got pulled over and it usually worked. Perhaps I was a bit of a creep and you didn't take any crap.....

 

[flecc]

Maybe you were unlucky or had a bit of an attitude? It was always yes sir threebags full sir when I got pulled over and it usually worked. Perhaps I was a bit of a creep and you didn't take any crap.....

It was Bournemouth and the surroundings I was speaking of, mainly in the early 50s though. Definitely no attitude, my approach just like yours, pulling over, being polite and hoping for the best, but that never came.

Similar police behaviour was very common with the Met Police in the 1960s when I was living there in South London, even to the identical trick with Halt signs.

There I even got prevented from moving off from the lights when they changed to green in Streatham High Road by two officers, then holding up a line of traffic while they insisted in first quizzing me at length and then searching the car. Their grounds? They said I looked too young to be driving that recent a car! I was 27 years old and an ex regular army sergeant, no baby face.
.

 

[vidtek]

It was Bournemouth and the surroundings I was speaking of, mainly in the early 50s though. Definitely no attitude, my approach just like yours, pulling over, being polite and hoping for the best, but that never came.

Similar police behaviour was very common with the Met Police in the 1960s when I was living there in South London, even to the identical trick with Halt signs.

There I even got prevented from moving off from the lights when they changed to green in Streatham High Road by two officers, then holding up a line of traffic while they insisted in first quizzing me at length and then searching the car. Their grounds? They said I looked too young to be driving that recent a car! I was 27 years old and an ex regular army sergeant, no baby face.
.

I eventually wrapped that CZ around a concrete fencepost on Iford Lane on the corner next to the tennis courts on my way to Tuckton. Very lucky to walk away from that one...the bike...not so lucky.

 

[flecc]

I eventually wrapped that CZ around a concrete fencepost on Iford Lane on the corner next to the tennis courts on my way to Tuckton. Very lucky to walk away from that one...the bike...not so lucky.

Tuckton familiar from very long ago!

I've either been fortunate or very careful, since in 54 years of intermittent motorcycling I've never crashed one on the roads. I did come off a few times in trials competition, yet even then never hurt myself.

Maybe motorcycling on the roads being without helmets or leathers in the early '50s made me more cautious. It was even easier to get badly hurt back then.
.
.

 

[vidtek]

Tuckton familiar from very long ago!

I've either been fortunate or very careful, since in 54 years of intermittent motorcycling I've never crashed one on the roads. I did come off a few times in trials competition, yet even then never hurt myself.

Maybe motorcycling on the roads being without helmets or leathers in the early '50s made me more cautious. It was even easier to get badly hurt back then.
.
.

I always rode with a helmet even back in the 60's. I couldn't afford the leathers tho.... Tuckton is where the wife and I lived when we were courting, all down by the Stour, the Riverside Inn, Pontins, Tucktonia...all gone except the Riverside which has gone all arty-farty upmarket (if a Harvester can be called upmarket) £5.50 for a tiny bowl of chips would you believe-and you can count the chips easily. Pontins was knocked down and is now a very good hotel, a generous bowl of chips you can't count for £4.50. It's called the Captain's Club and has a great restaurant, but you can kiss goodbye to £100 for a meal for two, but it is excellent. The Golfers Arms and Tucktonia was knocked down and is now a housing estate. Wick Lane where I grew up is still the same, but you can no longer wander about Hengistbury Head, strictly stick to the paths, a lot of it fenced off. It is still a fabulous part of the country though, I am lucky to live here.

 

[flecc]

I always rode with a helmet even back in the 60's. I couldn't afford the leathers tho.... Tuckton is where the wife and I lived when we were courting, all down by the Stour, the Riverside Inn, Pontins, Tucktonia...all gone except the Riverside which has gone all arty-farty upmarket (if a Harvester can be called upmarket) £5.50 for a tiny bowl of chips would you believe-and you can count the chips easily. Pontins was knocked down and is now a very good hotel, a generous bowl of chips you can't count for £4.50. It's called the Captain's Club and has a great restaurant, but you can kiss goodbye to £100 for a meal for two, but it is excellent. The Golfers Arms and Tucktonia was knocked down and is now a housing estate. Wick Lane where I grew up is still the same, but you can no longer wander about Hengistbury Head, strictly stick to the paths, a lot of it fenced off. It is still a fabulous part of the country though, I am lucky to live here.

The only helmet available in 1950 was the all steel ACU one used in racing, uncomfortable for road use so few wore them. I remember the first consumer helmet arriving to the trade, made of of compressed cork it was called the Corker and probably useless in an accident, especially as it had a peak. However, even the police used them back then!

Thanks for the update on the area, but most of it will be unfamiliar to me. After army service I only returned to Bournemouth for 1960 and '61 and spent most of that working, so most of my memories are from 1946 on, including the first half of the 1950s and the odd brief visits during my Army years.
.

 

[AndyBike]

Uhhh......View attachment 48873

Way-hey, out with MS magnifier I do love being really nosy when people post up pics
Maybe lose those paint tins. Paint doesn't last really, and half a tin will go off in under a year and be unusable. That would free up space.

Nice engineering vice thats a biggie.

 

[esuark]

trials competition

Spent 10 happy addicted years "competing" sometimes in your neck of the woods I believe, the scout camp on Featherbed lane for one and some disused formal gardens somewhere near Croydon. Then mountain biking and back to road cycling and now with help from electricity. Happy days

 

[esuark]

Way-hey, out with MS magnifier I do love being really nosy when people post up pics
Maybe lose those paint tins. Paint doesn't last really, and half a tin will go off in under a year and be unusable. That would free up space.

Nice engineering vice thats a biggie.

I'm not the only one then..........

 

[vidtek]

Way-hey, out with MS magnifier I do love being really nosy when people post up pics
Maybe lose those paint tins. Paint doesn't last really, and half a tin will go off in under a year and be unusable. That would free up space.

Nice engineering vice thats a biggie.

I wouldn't soil my hardware with any MS prduct, strictly Linux for me. You are right about some of the paint, although I have kept paint (oil-based) for many years and used it quite happily years later. That was before all the various additives were banned or eliminated; paint is not what it once was.

The bench vice - bought in Western Australia from WA Salvage Balcatta (now defunct). I walked in about 1998 to buy some chlorine for my pool and spotted this big pile of bench vices (vices plural vice??) about a metre high just dumped in a big pile for A$80 each. That vice is really heavy and has seen a lot of service. A real bargain.

 

[esuark]

I wouldn't soil my hardware with any MS prduct, strictly Linux for me.

I have got windows but use "Zorin" 99% of the time I`m not a computer buff though.

 

[Plas man]

[QUOTE="AndyBike,

Nice engineering vice thats a biggie.
[/QUOTE]

too bendy , I’ll stick with my Record No 4 , as for the paint re-tin them smaller or get the lid on firm n’ tight and upside down the tins .

 

[flecc]

Spent 10 happy addicted years "competing" sometimes in your neck of the woods I believe, the scout camp on Featherbed lane for one and some disused formal gardens somewhere near Croydon. Then mountain biking and back to road cycling and now with help from electricity. Happy days

Ah yes, Frylands Wood scout camp. No motorbike riding there now, but the Beckenham Boys Club does hold bicycle races around a woodland paths dirt track circuit during the summer school holidays. Also archery.

The local unregistered dirt bike riding youngsters are unofficially looked after though. John at Pear Tree Farm just beyond the scout camp wood lets them charge about a hilly field at the rear of the farm house.

The disused formal gardens were probably at Heathfield House by Addington Hills. They are now fully restored so no riding there any more.
.