Downtube Baseplates

[Deleted member 33385]

How many downtube baseplate designs are there? This site lists Dolphin, Hailong and Tigershark, but it isn't clear using navigation which one this (link 1) is:

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Hailong-Mounting-Bracket.jpg

That photo is named "Hailong", but when you select "Hailong (retention)" using the dropdown menu, you get shown this as the selection - a photo named "Tiger Shark":

https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Tiger-Shark-Mounting-Bracket-1.jpg

...and the reason why I need the first mounting bracket in link 1, and a battery with that mounting plate, is because it matches the one I've just bought and I need a second battery which docks with the plate I've mounted on the pannier, so I can simpy swap them. Does anyone know what this spec/design is called? If I can't find a battery with that mounting plate in the UK, I'll have to fashion a double decker pannier rack box containing two different mounting plates, and paint it a bright dayglow yellow.

 

[vfr400]

Why don't you show us what you have?

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Why don't you show us what you have?

Here's a pic:



...the Dahon pannier was too short and there is nowhere else for the mount to go, while maintaining it's ability to fold... so I added a (very rough) wooden riser (to overcome the upward curve at the front/top of the pannier/photo) and bolted the mount through that into steel plates and washers underneath. Despite the way it looks, it's pretty sturdy. Three inch hex M5 bolts were all they had at the local hardware store, due to covid-related restocking issues. If I can't source a battery which docks with this mounting plate, I may have to permanently attach this contraption under whatever battery I can get in the UK, and whip it out of the trailer to attach when needed:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/COMINGFIT®-Universal-Adjustable-Accessories-Equipment/dp/B01KZ1N7XK/

...it wouldn't increase my hauling burden too much - only weighs about 500g, and would fit over the first pannier, after the first (depleted) battery has been safely stowed away and set charging in the trailer, using the petrol generator. A bright dayglow yellow double decker battery box (I could fashion it as a big fin and a "British Roadways" flag) would be handy for visibility, and the Dahon's centre of gravity is very low... wouldn't make it significantly unsteady. Even so, a compatible docking battery is obviously best. Does anyone know what this mounting baseplate is actually called?




Battery label:




The seller has run out of UK stock and may never restock in the UK because of increased costs, I may be doomed to buy an identical battery at some silly price and a long wait for a delivery from China, for a compatible battery to the existing baseplate. Or I could mount a totally different second battery baseplate using the bottle holder holes in the middle of the frame horizontally, but then the Dahon would be bulkier when fully folded... but by doing that I could simply disconnect one battery (to charge in the trailer) and connect the other.

I almost bought the generator today:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/impax-im800i-700w-inverter-generator-230v/15760

...my unlimited range ebike project is definitely going to be completed, one way or another. All I need is 240 of those miles.

While we're on the subject of batteries, anyone tried these?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seilylanka-Li-ion-Battery-electric-bicycle/dp/B07YKMBLVQ/

Are they worth spending any money on?

p.s. I found a chap online who claims to be selling 36v 19.2AH battery packs (with a different mounting plate to mine, of course) using genuine Panasonic Tesla 21700 cells for a price I can't believe, in the UK. Accepts Paypal. Might be worth a punt - 4A charger included for £360, posted from the UK. "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

I'm certain I'm biring everyone to death, but I really don't want to infect an entire care home with Covid - in case I'm a symptomless carrier, or by picking it up on the way there - while visiting relatives even older than I am. The only way I can think of to remove all risk is by ebiking there and back.

 

[vfr400]

I was hoping to see the battery because that doesn't look like one of the two normal Hailong cases. You've shown everything but the battery!

 

[egroover]

looks like this

EU No Tax Electric Bike Battery Hailong G56 36V 12.5AH or36V 17.5AH 18650 Cells Pack Bicycle Lithium Battery for Bafang - PSWPOWER.com

www.pswpower.com

 

[Nealh]

Looks like a Polly DP 6 case rail to me ?
Ebike Part Polly Battery Case Carrier Polly DP-6 /DP-9 Battery case carrier [Polly case carrier DP-6/9] - $12.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce (topbikekit.com)

DP-6 Polly case looks much like the battery in your PSWP link.
2020 New Polly-DP-6 36V/48V/52V Battery case 70pcs 18650 cells [Polly DP-6 70cells] - $23.00 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce (topbikekit.com)

 

[vfr400]

looks like this

EU No Tax Electric Bike Battery Hailong G56 36V 12.5AH or36V 17.5AH 18650 Cells Pack Bicycle Lithium Battery for Bafang - PSWPOWER.com

www.pswpower.com

That's at least 3 types then. The other two both have controller compartments. It's getting complicated.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

I was hoping to see the battery because that doesn't look like one of the two normal Hailong cases. You've shown everything but the battery!

Apologies vfr400, here is the battery:












I think the newer cases have USB charging ports for "Smart" phones, and that this is an older design.

Do the pins on the mounting plate connect differently to every different BMS within each different battery housing? If so, it's going to be a right long fact-finding mission working out compatibility! What do each of these pins do exactly? Perhaps I could somehow cobble together some sort of adapter/translation layer, to save unplugging the baseplate connectors to the motor? Or make a Y power cable splitter and perhaps switches. If I can't find a second battery which is compatible with my mounting plate, or make an adapter: I could fashion a second plank (I'm using water-resistant and treated pallet wood by the way) to fit over the first - the second plank would be slightly thicker, hollowed out a little and permanently attached to the second battery baseplate, this thicker plank plus second baseplate would clamp to the pannier over the first baseplate on it's plank; after the first (depleted) battery was removed to charge in the bike trailer using the generator. Wingnuts galore! No dayglow shark fin required, and lowish centre of gravity maintained. Now, does anyone know of where I can get cheap 19.2ah or larger capacity batteries in the UK without non-generic Chinese cells? I'd prefer LG, Samsung, Panasonic etc.

 

[egroover]

looks like this one

36V14AH~29AH battery with Jumbo shark new polly case for more capacity(WH/Ah)-Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com

36V battery with new polly/ jumb shark case for high capacity/ more milage ebikes.

www.greenbikekit.com

 

[vfr400]

So, AFAICS, there are three different bases and at least three different size battery cases (56, 70 and 80 cells). The original case was for 52 cells. One or more cases can fit each base, so probably about 6 to 8 combinations in total. The size of the case doesn't matter as long as you have enough room in the frame for it and it fits the base you have/want.

All you can do is study the pictures in the listings, and even then, there's always a very small chance that you might get something different.

Neal has found one for you. Greenbikekit are a good compant to deal with, though you'll probably need to add about £40 duty to the price, or you could pray that the customs gods look on you favourably - maybe repent a few sins and help some old-ladies across the road, then keep your fingers crossed until it arrives, which sometimes works for me.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

maybe repent a few sins

I'm good, unfortunately, but it doesn't do me any good. A good deed never goes unpunished.

Thank you all for the and advice and links! This forum is fantastic! GreenBikeKit do indeed offer low prices, even with £40 added and they accept Paypal, which is great. I've never been refused a refund for defective goods by Paypal - even if it took a year, in one case - to get my money back.

Do they make the batteries after you've ordered? There's no indication of stock levels on the website itself. Maybe they've got massive warehouses full of the things all the time?

I've found something which looks like it has the same baseplate - are the NCR18650PF 10S9P cells ok? I'm thinking of getting:

26AH "36V Jumbo shark new polly downtube battery with more capacity(Ah)" - 26AH by NCR18650PF 10S9P(size 368x90x140mm)

*120W 42V 2.5A alloy charger
*UK stanard socket with AC240V
*Do you also need headlight cables soldering from battery

Can I use a more powerful charger?

Does anyone know what GreenBikeKit's delivery options actually mean?

* SFC Dedicated Line(General Product)[Arrival time:7-10 Days] $98.48
* SFC Economic Dedicated Line[Arrival time:6-10 Days] $101.52
* DG Express[Arrival time:7-15 Days] $119.88
* China DG EMS[Arrival time:10-30 Days] $142.03
* EU via NL Dedicated Line(MP)[Arrival time:15-25 Days] $169.14

...do they represent varying degrees of duty charge risk? Which is the best for avoiding a £40 duty charge? Should I route my battery from China through NL to the UK, for a more thrilling delivery, showing my battery magnificent canals en route?

Do they charge VAT on top? I suppose I'll find that out at checkout or after/if it's held at the port.

 

[soundwave]

eBike Batteries

ebikebatteries.co.uk

they cam make custom batts and you can pick the cells you want and have warranty as in the uk.

you can also pick between nickle copper or silver strip to build the pack.

 

[vfr400]

Go for the cheapest shipping option unless you need it in a hurry. It's a bit of a lottery whether you escape the duty, though batteries seem to have the highest chance of getting caught. There might be more chance to get away with it now because customs officers will be less likely to want to handle Chinese stuff in case they get the virus and more of them will be working from home, etc.

NCR18650PF are among the best if they're genuine. The 90 cell case is a bit bigger than thye 56 cell ones, so make sure you have space in your frame. I can't find a drawing, but one listing gives this size: 368*141*90mm.

GBK are resellers. They'll probably have a local workshop that does adjustments to stuff, like if you wanted the optional headlight cable, otherwise they call in their stock from a factory nearby. Whatever they do, it takes about 2 to 3 weeks from orderto delivery for larger items and batteries.

 

[Nealh]

In #6 if you click on the second link I gave, it gives all the battery and carrier lug measurements compare them with yours.
Likewise the GBK listing also gives size/measurement details, no issues using GBK they have always been a reliable source.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

NCR18650PF are among the best if they're genuine. The 90 cell case is a bit bigger than thye 56 cell ones, so make sure you have space in your frame. I can't find a drawing, but one listing gives this size: 368*141*90mm.

I'm going for a large second battery I need the range and also because - if laptop batteries are anything to go by - you always lose rather a lot of charge capacity after a couple of year of use, and I want to still have a useful range in a few years time, if the batteries last that long. I can build out the pannier base using palletwood (it's pretty light and strong compressed softwood), and unless it's half a metre or some such length, it won't be a problem... and if height is a problem (doesn't seem to be, so far) I can position it further back, until it isn't.

eBike Batteries

ebikebatteries.co.uk

they cam make custom batts and you can pick the cells you want and have warranty as in the uk.

you can also pick between nickle copper or silver strip to build the pack.

They look like a high quality outfit! Always the same isn't it? You get what you pay for... I'm going to sleep on it because there's no hope anytime soon, that the care homes I want to visit will be allowing visitors - they're particularly careful. They locked down early and restrict certain staff to specific wards and don't use agency personnel. They didn't lose anyone during the first wave and so far, not this one. It could be a month or more, by which time my Befangmobile will be complete! (It'll be tested for range and ready for action well before then).

In #6 if you click on the second link I gave, it gives all the battery and carrier lug measurements compare them with yours.
Likewise the GBK listing also gives size/measurement details, no issues using GBK they have always been a reliable source.

In case those NCR18650PF 10S9P cells are genuine, I'll most likely go with GBK, unless I finally lose my marbles completely and buy from this chap down the road who claims that he is selling a 36v 19.2AH battery pack "with genuine Panasonic Tesla 21700 Cells" for £360. They're probably knockoffs at that price. DON'T DO IT! THINK OF THE FLAMES! I'll tell myself.

 

[soundwave]

Samsung 40T 21700 Battery

Samsung 40T 21700 Lithium Ion Battery. All batteries are Tested | Traceable | Quality Products. Order now at Fogstar UK for FAST delivery.

www.fogstar.co.uk

not cheap but jimmy could build you a pack with them in also not cheap but wont be a bomb with tested cells

 

[Nealh]

10s 9p is heavy large battery.
PF are ok for a budget 10a rated cell, life cycle isn't up there with the likes of LG cells. However the PF's I have hold the discharge really well even in PAS 5, even down at 3.5/3.6v per cell group the voltage remains very stable as does the power.
LG M29 would be very good if one can find a battery with them.

If going for such a large battery format then in 9p config Sam 29E would be an excellent choice.

There is so much choice with cells there are almost too many to choose from.
For 21700 cells Sam 50E have good reviews and cycle life matches that of the top 18650's like MJ1,M36 & HG2 all coincidently LG cells.

 

[Nealh]

A 21 page thread read but very interesting.
Li-ion cells cycle ageing - Endless Sphere (endless-sphere.com)

 

[Deleted member 33385]

10s 9p is heavy large battery.
PF are ok for a budget 10a rated cell, life cycle isn't up there with the likes of LG cells. However the PF's I have hold the discharge really well even in PAS 5, even down at 3.5/3.6v per cell group the voltage remains very stable as does the power.
LG M29 would be very good if one can find a battery with them.

If going for such a large battery format then in 9p config Sam 29E would be an excellent choice.

There is so much choice with cells there are almost too many to choose from.
For 21700 cells Sam 50E have good reviews and cycle life matches that of the top 18650's like MJ1,M36 & HG2 all coincidently LG cells.

There really is rather a lot to know before purchasing a bike battery. It'd be easy to spend too little money and buy something terrible - on the other hand there are exponentially diminishing returns, if you overspend. I'll google like crazy for awhile before I buy anything.