Don't Buy Kalkhoff no after sales

[BobLewin]

Hi

I spent £3k+ on a new Kalkhoff unrestricted bike. A small connector from the handlebar mode selector to the display has broken, Kalkhoff cannot give me a date when they could supply a replacement except it will be sometime in 2023! They've not even bothered to take an order! Their response was "we are dependent on our suppliers" in other words we may or may not get one from China one day. This is a brand that builds great store on "made in Germany", it should be assembled in Germany and by the way we've got your money so best of luck with the £3k of scrap metal in your shed.

Luckily I'm not struggling financially but I am really angry about the arrogance of their response and I've registered the domains below to build a website warning other people. If you've had similar problems with Kalkhoff I'd be grateful to hear from you.

 

[soundwave]

Displays und Zubehör - Pro-Cycling-Golla

Displays und Zubehör - Für das EVO-System gibt er mehrere Displays mit unterschiedlichen Steckern. Diese sind untereinander nicht kompatibel. Wenn S

www.pro-cycling-golla.de

 

[StuartsProjects]

Maybe its a consequence of the current very significant silicon chip shortage.

I was wanting to build a small control board, using a particular microcontroller.

Current estimate for supplies of the parts, from multiple suppliers, is mid\late 2023.

So maybe the original manufacturer just cannot get the parts to supply repalcements.

 

[flecc]

If you've had similar problems with Kalkhoff I'd be grateful to hear from you.

We have legions of such complaining users Bob, mainly about the Impulse series motors that Kalkhoff used but also the other brands the German parent company, Derby Cycles gmbh, sold with those motors. And the one time agent for Kalkhoff here in the UK also came in for a bashing.

Kalkhoff of course is just a brand name of Derby Cycles, they have many other from the companies they've owned at various times, including Raleigh, so the same bikes often appeared differently badged.

You may find this 49 page thread informative:

Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors

Hi, I am trying to ascertain who is having issues with Impulse II motors on Kalkhoff or Focus e-bikes (both made by Derby Cycles). Personally, I had a first motor replacement after 900 miles (4 months, loud clacking/clicking noise), and then another failure at around 900 miles (7 months, very...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

.

 

[guerney]

I can't find a replacement carbon fibre headband for my Sennheiser HD600 headphones for love nor money in the UK, so it's not just silicon chips. Sennheiser's spare parts division has been sold to Sonova, a German hearing aid company, and of course they are having supply chain problems - no ETA, and I've waited a year so far. Thank goodness for zipties, which are holding it's splintered form together. I expect I'll have to epoxy the shards securely at some point.

 

[Nealh]

Your not alone with poor service Bob, George Henry had a similar experience with Yamaha and the battery connector when it broke. His reply was sorry can't help you will have to buy another £800 battery, like most of us GH managed to affect a good repair himself and that was a few years ago now.

Afaics they all treat their bikes/products as a one time use item and then bin it, which is damn poor. One reason why I would never give any of the big mid drive brands a single penny of my hard earned.

Imv it is simply once they have your money they arn't bothered, it may be put together in Germany but is still in essence a made in China bike just as all other bike tend to be or far from the far east.

 

[AndyBike]

Imv it is simply once they have your money they arn't bothered, it may be put together in Germany but is still in essence a made in China bike just as all other bike tend to be or far from the far east.

You sure about that or just guessing ?. I was under the impression they were 'made' in Germany

 

[flecc]

You sure about that or just guessing ?. I was under the impression they were 'made' in Germany

Almost everything "made" in the West is heavily dependant on Far Eastern components within their assemblies, it's not just "chips". Our Western manufacturers buy from there simply because their parts are much cheaper than we can make them, and this is particularly true of electrical connectors, the subject of the OP's post.

I still remember publicity from Kalkhoff back in 2008 purporting to show the bikes being made, so one would expect to start with frame fabrication. But no, the opening shot was of frames being sprayed, triggering the thought that like most Western makers, they probably bought their frames by the container load from China. A 40 foot container can hold thousands of frames, so a fiver saved on each frame leaves them laughing all the way to the bank.

Germany does make some bicycle components, wheel parts for example, and even we do in the UK, but where more labour is involved in the making as in fiddly assemblies, the Far East wins.
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Imv it is simply once they have your money they arn't bothered, it may be put together in Germany but is still in essence a made in China bike just as all other bike tend to be or far from the far east.

And if there are supply problems with the electronics, where do you best (profit wise) utilize the supplies, new products, or spares and replacements ?

 

[StuartsProjects]

Almost everything "made" in the West is heavily dependant on Far Eastern components within their assemblies, it's not just "chips".

+++++ Indeed.

I suspect the 'global market' approach and the attitude that if we can buy stuff cheap from the far East then thats OK, is about to unravel, big time.

 

[flecc]

+++++ Indeed.

I suspect the 'global market' approach and the attitude that if we can buy stuff cheap from the far East then thats OK, is about to unravel, big time.

Indeed.

The question is, will we be able to correct it by making much more for ourselves, or will our economy be so far gone that we'll have to learn how to go without in a simpler life.

There's a suspicion our politicians approve of the latter, if their policy of getting everyone out of cars and onto bikes is anything to go by.
.

 

[egroover]

it's enough to put you off mega money prebuilt ebikes, opting instead to converting an existing bike with a readily available bafang mid drive and generic battery at a fraction of the price...

 

[georgehenry]

To be fair to the dealer where I bought my Haibike Yamaha, they have, within the limits of what their suppliers allow them to do, offered me very good service,

After all they replaced my motor right on the point of the two year warranty expiring free of charge.

I recently had an off, and broke a part on an after market mudguard, managed to get a spar part to fix it, but could not get the expander bolt of the original mudguard out. A mudguard I did not buy from my dealer.

They booked my bike in and spent some time getting the seized expander bolt out and fitting the new part, and when I asked what the bill was, told me there was no charge. I have not used them that much over the years but whenever I have they always been very helpful, professional and quick.

The battery problem was a strange one. The problem happened when the bike was outside the warranty. The owner of the dealership where I bought my bike was very honest, but said they were not allowed to attempt to fix batteries, and there was no avenue open to them to send it away to be fixed. He was honest enough to effectively suggest that as it was outside the warranty I could try to fix it myself.

For me there was not anything too difficult to fix. I just needed to replace the connectors of both the battery and the charger. The problem was they were bespoke connectors and unavailable from my dealer as spar parts, or from anywhere else at that time. The repair also involved effectively breaking into the battery by overcoming the defeat bolts to get inside the casing to solder the wires from the new connector I bought into place.

It was however a triumph of form over function, as my new connectors were quite ugly plastic connectors but easier to use and have worked very well ever since. The original connectors broke around the 23rd of April 2018. The mileage when the problem occurred was 8,978 miles. The current mileage on the bike is 16,150 miles, all powered by the fixed original battery and charger.

So my Haibike with Yamaha crank drive has, not withstanding the battery problem, proved to be a very tough piece of kit, and continues to work very well. I don't like discarding useful items of equipment and will always try to fix them if I can. According to pedelec member soundwave the Yamaha motor is also the toughest crank drive motor and luckily the one for which spar parts can be obtained. My replaced free of charge second motor has now completed over 10,000 miles.

However I have not bought another purpose built e mountain bike despite being tempted, and for the reason that they are too vulnerable to breaking and not being able to be repaired.

My other two old (circa 2011) rear hub bikes have generic Chinese systems that make them much easier to obtain spar parts for and fix. This includes batteries from Yose of ebay that have been much better value and good quality in respect of the price charged and have proved long lived. I bought a second Yose 15Ah silverfish in March 22 for £165.62 including charger delivered. The 400Wh battery excluding charger for my Haibike Yamaha is listed as out of stock on my dealers website, but if available would cost £649.99, just for the battery, and I of course could now not connect it to my charger. The separately and available battery charger is listed at £149.99.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/yamaha-battery-charger-problem.31092/#post-434202

 

[Bonzo Banana]

You sure about that or just guessing ?. I was under the impression they were 'made' in Germany

I know Haibikes were assembled from frames supplied by fuji-ta at in the past. Fuji-ta being the world's biggest bike manufacturer. Then the cells in Bosch batteries come from China or the Far East typically as do many circuits and components. Bafang claims they are a OEM supplier to companies in Europe making mid-drive motors but even Bafang themselves are reliant on a large Chinese manufacturer themselves for their hub motors. You can see it in one of the videos about Bafang where they show hub motors that have come in from a different factory for final assembly at Bafang. They state 1000s are employed at the hub motor factory where as at the time, Bafang had more like 10s of workers working on mid-drive motor assembly. Chinese manufacturing statistics state over 95% of world ebikes are hub motor based so consequently the factories making hub motors are typically much larger than those just making mid-drive motors.

It's like action cameras, a company called HDKing is the largest manufacturer of action cameras by volume but European/US/UK importers and Chinese trade houses rebrand them to lots of different models but ultimately its still a HDKing product under the branding.

So even the Chinese companies you think make products often don't its another larger Chinese company that actually makes the product. I don't think most people in the UK or Europe understand Chinese trade houses, they are companies that buy factory production either to sell on in smaller amounts to importers or to sell under their own brands.

There are consumers that will pay extra to get a badge on the product that says 'Made in Italy', 'Made in Germany' etc.

I used to be in a job testing Chinese power tools and hand tools and we would get them sent to us in packaging that showed 'Made in Germany' etc and were sold in the German market from the manufacturer or trade house as if to show the quality was so good German importers were happy to put 'Made in Germany' on them and just repackage them for their market therefore they could state 'Made in Germany' as a process was done in Germany (last significant process). The tools were often abysmal quality for long term use, screwdrivers that you could use perhaps 5 or 6 times before they were in the bin but then it was a pack of screwdrivers for 60c per unit which perhaps would sell at retail for 4 euros etc.

Ultimately just about every country produces products from terrible to great quality only those easily manipulated by marketing would choose their products by country. German cars are some of the worst for quality nowadays with regard reliability and repair costs but you still get people that think German cars are good. I've had my car for getting on 9 years and never had a single fault, it's korean made with some parts made in Vietnam. Still on the original battery. Just replaced wipers and general servicing.