Do the maths

[halfmedley]

According to a BBC news report accessible via the pedelecs site:

"A climate campaigner from Machynlleth is travelling 500 miles to Brussels on an electric bike to lobby a conference on carbon trading...Dr Howard said the trip was low-carbon and would cost only 50p".

50p! Does that sound unlikely to anyone else? I'd like to see the calculations that produced that figure. And how is he planning to get across the channel?

 

[flecc]

I think he's calculated the land mileage only on the manufacturer's range for the bike and based the cost on what charge is in the battery after each charge.

If he took the current the charger used and the actual result at the end of the trip, he might need a zero on the end. Plus the ferry as you say.
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[coops]

500 miles, 50 miles per charge (it says) makes 10 charges so thats 5p per charge, less than 1unit.

The same bike had a 266Wh battery before, so is that realistic (the cost, not the range, which is only doable with much pedalling & few hills)? (Maybe he's hitching a lift on a boat cross channel - sort of begs the question why not go by boat from Wales??)

However, to get that range he'll have to pedal somewhat, so he ought to factor in some "rider fuel" costs i.e. food, and the resultant carbon emissions from that.... .

I don't know if they've got their facts wrong, or are just being plain misleading, but "can reach speeds of around 40 mph" ??? Either they mean on steep downhill sections, or they misheard "14mph"!

Why is everyone so obsessed with how fast ebikes go? Its a bike, get over it!

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Why is everyone so obsessed with how fast ebikes go? Its a bike, get over it!

Stuart.

The whole speed subject amuses me. If a youngster asks how fast my small car can go and I say 98, he's totally unimpressed, but if he asks how fast one of my e-bikes goes and I press the speedo button and show him I've just done 28 mph, the reaction is "Wow! "

It's a mad world.
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[coops]

I prefer it that way round though .

 

[Ian]

I normally do 30 ish miles on a 3 hour charge, the charger consumes 130w, that's 0.39kWh, which at E7 night rate is about 1.5p or 0.05 pence per mile. In other words I can do 500 miles for 25p. Even only getting 15 miles per charge the total cost would only be 50p.

The energy costs for e-bikes really are negligible, the real cost is the inevitable battery replacement, which works out at around 100 to 300 times the cost of the electricity stored during its lifetime.

 

[coops]

So even at "peak" rate electricity prices, at say ~0.3kWh per charge for his smaller battery, thats 0.3 units per charge, 10 charges is ~ 3 units, so still less than 50p for the electricity, if not the battery & food...

 

[Ian]

I didn't mention the food Stuart as my tastes would probably raise the total cost to more than the air fare. Cycling makes me hungry

 

[coops]

Quite right too!.... Mmmmmmm.... chips! .

 

[flecc]

I normally do 30 ish miles on a 3 hour charge, the charger consumes 130w, that's 0.39kWh, which at E7 night rate is about 1.5p or 0.05 pence per mile. In other words I can do 500 miles for 25p. Even only getting 15 miles per charge the total cost would only be 50p.

The energy costs for e-bikes really are negligible, the real cost is the inevitable battery replacement, which works out at around 100 to 300 times the cost of the electricity stored during its lifetime.

I use very little electricity and pay dearly as a result, the average of the split pricing on the last couple of bills being exactly 11p per unit. So my equivalent of Ian's 50 p total on a night rate is £3.66 on 15 miles range. I jokingly said that rider might need a nought on the end in my previous post, but it wasn't so far out after all if he paid my rate.

Strange justice how those who use the least and are environmentally the least damaging get stung so heavily for it. I tried a price comparison check again just recently for my very small usage and there was very little to be saved. Without price hold guarantees, it wasn't worth switching.
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[JohnInStockie]

Electricity Suppliers

Ive just switched to Green Energy UK's 100 plan, its a bit more expensive per unit, but at least I know its doing some good.

 

[Ian]

Flecc, like you I am a low user, most of my daytime electricity is at the highest of the split day rate, which is of course the "abolished" standing charge in disguise. As I usually charge the bikes at night I prefer to think of what they use as being pure night rate, the overheads already paid on essentials like water heating, cooking, fridge etc. Of course it all makes no difference to the bill, but I'd rather not work out an average price per unit, knowing the true cost of being environmentally aware might become rather annoying

 

[coops]

I only make it £1.43 for 500 miles @ 15 miles per charge at your rates flecc, half that for 30 miles per charge, and if you had the same 50 mile range on a 266Wh battery, only ~35p for electricity .

 

[flecc]

I only make it £1.43 for 500 miles @ 15 miles per charge at your rates flecc, half that for 30 miles per charge, and if you had the same 50 mile range on a 266Wh battery, only ~35p for electricity .

I took Ian's 50 p for the 15 mile range rate at 1.5 p per unit and converted that to 11 p per unit, and that's the £3.66 Stuart, compared to his.

But as Ian remarked, it's irrelevant when the battery cost is considered. Some BionX Li-ion users using the full range per trip might save by taking the car!

(BionX battery = $900)

 

[coops]

Ah, I think Ian meant about 1.5p per charge of 0.39kWh or 0.39 units: i.e. ~3.85p per unit. 0.39 of your £3.66 gives ~£1.43 .

As you say though, the battery cost considerably outweighs the electricity costs, over a battery's lifetime, and continuous deep discharge of expensive Li batteries like the Bionx would be costly indeed!

 

[Ian]

For the record. 1.5p is the approximate cost of a charge, A night unit costing about 3.5p ... unless its gone down

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

You can say that again!

Ah, I think Ian meant about 1.5p per charge of 0.39kWh or 0.39 units: i.e. ~3.85p per unit. 0.39 of your £3.66 gives ~£1.43 .

As you say though, the battery cost considerably outweighs the electricity costs, over a battery's lifetime, and continuous deep discharge of expensive Li batteries like the Bionx would be costly indeed!

And some! Li batteries 'take no prisoners'.
Peter

 

[halfmedley]

What we're talking about here are the 'marginal costs' of an electric bike, which is indeed low, still not convinced about 500 miles = 50p though.

To get a true cost per mile figure for electric bikes however, a full life cycle analysis would have to be done. This would include energy figures for manufacture of bikes and batteries, transportation from China, disposal of batteries etc etc. Compared to these industrial processes, suddenly actual recharge costs looks very marginal indeed.

Thankfully though a life cycle analysis for an electric bike should still compare very favourably to cars.

I'd still like to know how the cost of crossing the channel is incorporated into the 50p as quoted!

 

[coops]

Yes, I agree halfmedley (maybe he's cycling through the channel tunnel or as I said, getting a lift from a friendly ship .)

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

A to B magazine tests include a notional cost per mile based on a standard formula they've used for years, which includes all running costs and depreciation.

The figure ranges roughly from 7p to 12p per mile depending on bike, so on that basis, our intrepid cross channel venturer will incur a true cost of between £35 and £60, without the ferry cost.
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