DIYers, Take Note

[AndyBike]

Another fire story, though sadly this one has led to a fatality.

Man is arrested for manslaughter after mother-of-four, 44, died

A man has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter after a Blackpool house fire killed a mum-of-four - believed to have been sparked by an e-scooter battery.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now it doesnt say it was a diy job, but i would think that everyone who is building their own Ebike should take notice and if you aren't a trained electrician or electrical engineer, maybe look to have your wiring checked by one who is.

 

[matthewslack]

Another fire story, though sadly this one has led to a fatality.

Man is arrested for manslaughter after mother-of-four, 44, died

A man has been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter after a Blackpool house fire killed a mum-of-four - believed to have been sparked by an e-scooter battery.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Now it doesnt say it was a diy job, but i would think that everyone who is building their own Ebike should take notice and if you aren't a trained electrician or electrical engineer, maybe look to have your wiring checked by one who is.

Seems a big step from accidental fire to manslaughter.

 

[flecc]

Seems a big step from accidental fire to manslaughter.

Maybe, but remember, any privately owned e-scooter is still illegal on the roads at present, being a non-type approved, unregistered motor vehicle.

So anyone owning one can be behaviourally suspect in police eyes. Arrest is provisional, only indicating suspicion.
.

 

[Woosh]

as a side issue, I wonder who pays for the damage.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Seems a big step from accidental fire to manslaughter.

Maybe the further investigations of the Fire Service revealed evidence justifying the potential manslaughter charge.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

Maybe the further investigations of the Fire Service revealed evidence justifying the potential manslaughter charge.

Are battery cell casings made of tin? If so, they'd melt at 231.9 °C and lithium fires burn at about 2000 °C , therefore I don't see how physical evidence from the battery pack could have remained. Maybe the suspect admitted to buying a cheap battery pack and installing it?

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

A dead 14500 cell I have sticks to a magnet, and the melting point of steel is 1371-1540°C, so there is a chance that some of the battery pack and wiring remained? I hope more information about this tragedy becomes available.

 

[Woosh]

Are battery cell casings made of tin?

No, the jacket is made of steel.
That's why you can't solder your wires directly to it using your soldering iron and tin solder but have to weld steel to an intermediate like tin nickel strips (so wires can be soldered to them).
The problem is not all batteries are made with safer and more expensive cylindrical cells. A lot are made with cheaper pouch cells.
Branded cells usually go through quality control and graded before marking. Defective or reject cells are sold off cheaply unmarked without any responsibility about what will be made of them.
They eventually end up in 'Chinese' batteries.

 

[StuartsProjects]

I hope more information about this tragedy becomes available.

We probably will find out what happened, if it goes to court.

But with a potential case pending, I doubt the Police or Fire service will say much .....

 

[Woosh]

I hope more information about this tragedy becomes available.

one thing that DIYers should be aware of and properly take into account when you buy your batteries from companies located outside the UK.
I don't want to sound alarmist, and it's not about tax cheats, but it's about product liability which is automatically the importers. If you buy your battery from companies located outside the UK, including those which ship from Europe and UK, you are the importer, not them, and you are personally liable for any damage caused by the imported battery.

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

one thing that DIYers should be aware of and properly take into account when you buy your batteries from companies located outside the UK.
I don't want to sound alarmist, and it's not about tax cheats, but it's about product liability which is automatically the importers. If you buy your battery from companies located outside the UK, including those which ship from Europe and UK, you are the importer, not them, and you are personally liable for any damage caused by the imported battery.

In that case, the importer suspect could have simply bought a complete electric scooter containing cheap batteries via Amazon or ebay sourced from outside the UK, and this may not have been a DIY project at all. Or through Aliexpress or any of a myriad of other online souks.

 

[Bogmonster666]

It does sound quite a reach for this to be potential manslaughter...but I'm no legal expert. Thinking some more, it may well be an importer / repairer who has sold this commercially rather than say a private importer? I can understand how a commercial importer and seller maybe more open to this kind of prosecution for selling an item not in adherence to UK standards.

It would be interesting to know the grounds for this but don't expect to hear much soon. There must be countless cheapo lithium cells in all manner of items that have been imported.

I know I am not so careful about charging my stuff either (although I don't currently have an ebike). I do regularly charge 18650s (mostly quality Panasonic and Fenix cells) and invariably they sometimes get left in the charger...also Bosch professional power tool batteries, mower batteries etc.

Have noticed that cheapie lithium non-oem camera cells and laptop batteries are particularly prone alarming failure.

I have been intending to buy a timed, auto-cutoff plug in mains adapter for this reason. I did have an immersion heater timer (supposedly a reliable brand) try to catch fire on me once so wary about those sort of solutions as well. Now, when did I last check the fire alarm batteries...

Tbh, the big oxygen cylinder in the garage is my biggest concern, might move that to the shed just in case...

C

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

The list of victims suggests to me at least, that the household bought the electric scooter from the suspect, which was imported, repaired or modified. Woman 44, man in his 50s, three other people, aged 13, 16 and 26.

Manslaughter arrest over Blackpool e-scooter battery fire death

A woman in her 40s died in a fire believed to have been caused by an e-scooter battery, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bogmonster666]

The list of victims suggests to me at least, that the household bought the electric scooter from the suspect, which was imported, repaired or modified. Woman 44, man in his 50s, three other people, aged 13, 16 and 26.

Manslaughter arrest over Blackpool e-scooter battery fire death

A woman in her 40s died in a fire believed to have been caused by an e-scooter battery, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Snap, just edited my previous post with similar suspicion. If true, then commercial importers / repairers need to take proper care (as they are legally and morraly obliged to do). I suspect DIY'ers are in a different position (but not a legal expert), however, even for a DIY'er, little comfort if your creation is responsible for your demise, or the death of a loved one...

C

 

[Woosh]

In that case, the importer suspect could have simply bought a complete electric scooter containing cheap batteries via Amazon or ebay sourced from outside the UK, and this may not have been a DIY project at all. Or through Aliexpress or any of a myriad of other online souks.

if the product was bought on amazon or ebay, the customer or his/her insurance company can sue the platform.

California court rules Amazon can be liable for defective goods sold on its marketplace

The ruling deals a major blow to Amazon, which has for years fought off product liability lawsuits.

www.cnbc.com

if he/she bought it on a website then I guess it's up to the customer to sue the website owner.

 

[Woosh]

Snap, just edited my previous post with similar suspicion. If true, then commercial importers / repairers need to take proper care (as they are legally and morraly obliged to do). I suspect DIY'ers are in a different position (but not a legal expert), however, even for a DIY'er, little comfort if your creation is responsible for your demise, or the death of a loved one...

C

a new problem can also arise if the bike is sold on to somebody else.

 

[Bogmonster666]

a new problem can also arise if the bike is sold on to somebody else.

I suspect little comeback or liability on private sales? As a caver and climber, the amount of decades old climbing harnesses, helmets and ropes on auction sites is alarming. Most manufacturers stipulate a maximum of 10 years life for any PPE with plastic or fabric components.

 

[Woosh]

I suspect little comeback or liability on private sales? As a caver and climber, the amount of decades old climbing harnesses, helmets and ropes on auction sites is alarming. Most manufacturers stipulate a maximum of 10 years life for any PPE with plastic or fabric components.

yes, you are correct. If the e-scooter was bought second hand, the buyer assumes the risk and liability but when an affected person claims on their insurance, the insurance company will try to recover their expense from absolutely anyone connected to the incident. If the battery was imported, then they would still go after the importer.
Their usual tactic is to suggest that the battery is not of merchantable quality or is unfit for the purpose. It's up to the importer to provide them with safety and test certificates to avoid litigation. If you are an individual, how would you go about that if you don't even know which make and model of the cells or which factory assembled the battery and if they have insurance?

 

[I893469365902345609348566]

It's taken quite a while for the suspect to be arrested, this happened on the 6th of July. Perhaps the Police were forced to investigate further, after the insurance company had determined the 60% (last time I looked) threshold of the probability of successful litigation had been reached?

 

[luap321]

batterys dont have to be cheap inferior quality to have a problem or be dangerous i had an orange black and decker cordless drill aboul ten years ago the battery was sat on the table in front of me not touched /droped or nothing an it just started smoking and got really hot i picked it up with a table mat an put it out side .
i think a phone or laptop any thing with a battery is a hazard