DIY Solar panels for home energy

[eTim]

There's lots of hype about at the moment related to installing solar panels for home energy, too much hype for me to trust getting a government scheme installer to fit me some panels only for it to take 20 years to recoup the costs and then the technology will be out of date within 5 years etc.

So what cheaper DIY options are there? What can I do with it? Heat water, charge a bank of batteries to power something, any suggestions, websites, advice?

I have a South facing roof which collects loads of sun, the loft space heats to around 40 degrees in the middle of summer without any panels, so it must be a good candidate for solar energy. What about SLA batteries, how many would I need to power appliances at 240v?

 

[NRG]

Cant help with answers to your questions Tim but I'm currently looking at installing PV's on my house. The current Government feed in tariff scheme is quite a rich one with full investment return in about 10years, TAX free and index linked....rate of return is about 10~12% which is more than any other long term plan that I currently know of...

 

[Bigbee]

Me too !

We're in the sticks and our electricity ,oil and Calor gas bills are quite enormous .I am currently looking into Solar ,Heat Sourcing etc . I agree about the hype and Im sure there's some big rip offs for the unprepared . If we lived in a small town house I wouldnt bother as waiting for 10 plus pay back years isnt worth it and I've better things to spend my hard earned on . Seeing as our bills are around £10,000 per year its worth us looking into and I think I can get solar fitted for around £6,000.

 

[NRG]

Fitted for 6K is a very good price, what capacity would that be? Best results are with a south facing roof and no shade at all. Kept under the 4KWh limit the FiT is 43.3 / KWh...without the FiT PV's make no sense though you simply can't generate enough power or power when you most need it....

 

[funkylyn]

There is a company that sells slight seconds in solar panels in germany, I cant remember the name sorry, but will have a trawl around and see if I can find it.
My son in law actually works for a company near here and they are completely rushed off their feet and have taken on 20 more fitters in the last year or so.....apparently the companies owners are making a fortune.......
Lynda

 

[muckymits]

We've been waiting since last April for a surveyor to check out our roof space, but they are soo busy we are still waiting and no-one else in Durham area doing it.

David

 

[NRG]

There are nation wide outlets like EvoEnergy. MoneySavingExpert has a good guide on whats available...see the 'How to pick a Fitter' for more companies...

Solar panels: Save £70 a year on leccy and /or earn £10,000s...

 

[eTim]

Nothing is as simple as the adverts would have you believe, looking at the FIT scheme installers websites and their own calculations for ROI, it will definately take 20-25 years to break even, even with prices increasing that may bring it down slightly, but then if you invested your £12K (average) installation fee in investments, the returns could be just as good if invested wisely - going on past results, 12K invested in my pension (also increased by tax breaks) over 25 years @ 5% will be worth 40K and and probably more!

Even the 'free' systems will only save you £70/year based on current rates (according to moneysaving), that headline might sound good for some, but what are the hidden costs associated with a 'free' system?

Then there are concerns over maintenance, wear and tear (on your own roof), technological absolescence, contractual obligations, higher insurance premiums, changes in governments and rules etc. For those where solar energy makes sense it is probably a good idea, but as bigbee notes, for ordinary houselholders the numbers don't stack up.

I also don't like the carrot and stick approach, install now and get the higher tarrif because from April 2012 the FIT tarrifs reduce, with the threat of installation prices and raw material (panel) prices increasing as time goes by, it feels like a political con, part of the UK gov't meeting CO2 emission promises. This is why the installers are so busy, the general public has read the headlines and is being quickly pulled into it. Read behind the headlines and a different commercial story emerges. It will be interesting to see the stats in 10 years time of these first adopters and whether the same money invested would have made the same ROI as PV.

I think on the basis that installation charges are way too high and like so many other politically driven schemes that do not appear to work for everyone but are touted as the best thing since sliced bread - I'm out. In 5 years time it might be cheaper to install with better PV tech making more commercial sense, who knows....?

 

[wurly]

I'm slowly coming around to the idea. The FiT is a huge incentive, my aim is to get on the tariff before the april deadline.
There is a guy in our company who has already had them fitted. This is an extract short email i recieved from a work colleague who works in the same dept.
"
Just been speaking to Ralph about his solar system, he was predicted to generate 3100kWh /year. So far he has generated 2800, his year started sept 2010. so he’s looking on target. He’s also had two cheques so far, he puts a meter reading in quarterly "

Thats £1342 per year. Although i don't yet know how much this installation cost, i do know someone spent £10500 for 3.8KWh system. On those figures It won't take that long to recoupe the original investment. Nowhere near the 25years stated above.
I will start getting quotes soon.

 

[eTim]

I'm slowly coming around to the idea. The FiT is a huge incentive, my aim is to get on the tariff before the april deadline.
There is a guy in our company who has already had them fitted. This is an extract short email i recieved from a work colleague who works in the same dept.
"
Just been speaking to Ralph about his solar system, he was predicted to generate 3100kWh /year. So far he has generated 2800, his year started sept 2010. so he’s looking on target. He’s also had two cheques so far, he puts a meter reading in quarterly "

Thats £1342 per year. Although i don't yet know how much this installation cost, i do know someone spent £10500 for 3.8KWh system. On those figures It won't take that long to recoupe the original investment. Nowhere near the 25years stated above.
I will start getting quotes soon.

So let's look at the figures, using the example above:

£10,500 invested @ 3% compounded over 11 years = £14,534
Invested in FiT £1342 x 11 years = £14,762
11 year ROI

£10,500 invested @ 5% compounded over 15 years = £21,829
Invested in FiT £1342 x 16 years = £21,472
16 year ROI

£10,500 invested @ 8% compounded over 20 years = £48,940
£10,500 invested @ 4.35% compounded over 36 years = £48,631
Invested in FiT £1342 x 36 years = £48,312
36 years ROI (expected lifetime of the panels)

The above calculations do not take into account the costs of maintenance, increased insurance premiums and wear & tear, also the change in tarrif after the 25 year guarantee finishes is not taken into account, these will increase the ROI. Also increases in energy charges are not taken into account which would reduce ROI. Also where you live affects the amount of energy that can be produced from the sun, so these figures could be variable.

So as can be seen, the two critical figures are installation costs and investment rates. In my example at the lowest investment rates waiting 11 years just to break even is a big ask! With no access to your money and no guarantee that you will be in the house long enough to see any benefit. There are quite a few risks involved with that choice.

Also my roof space is not large enough to generate 3.8kWh, I would be looking at around 2kWh (see this page for examples Solar PV Feed In Tariff Calculator ) making the scheme less appealing.

In 36 years time, I'll be 80 years old, assuming a safe (bank) rate of return @ 4.35%, the investment in panels and my £10.5K invested in a bank savings account will match each other, will I be bothered?

I think that this model is too simplified and could get complex if not using averages. Whilst the FiT scheme values are relatively fixed, investment returns can vary and money can be moved around into better or worse investments over long and short term periods. It still feels that the FiT scheme does not provide good value for money over it's lifetime. Installation costs would need to be halved before I could invest in PV.

 

[NRG]

I agree there are a lot of questions and concerns but I've used the calculator you linked to and another on Encraft and ROI even given worse case of a 2Kw system is a less than 10 years, no where near 25.

The FiT is also index linked which you need to take into account, its also guaranteed. Install prices vary wildly though, I've had them between 9K and 14K for similar systems.

I agree on maintenance and one thing many installers do not tell you about is the inverter which has a 10year life span and costs in the region of £1000!!!!

As for newer technology coming along there is evidence that improvements will only come about in the area of manufacturing cost with a very small increase in efficiency of the panels due to manufacturing refinement. 20% panels are available now and the next ones will only be 23% with no guarantee of longer life...

I'm not fully convinced either and need to do more research...