Difference between suspension and no suspension...

I am sure there will be varying personal opinons on this topic, but can I ask:

 

How much of a difference there is between a Wisper 705 without suspension (older model) vs. current model with suspension?

 

Anyone any opinions?

 

Many thanks,

 

Penny

Here is mine!

 

Decent quality light weight shocks cost money....I dont think cheap shocks help that much. My 905 City has no suspension and it is a really nice bike, my last 905 sport had suspension and I dont miss it at all, and like the lighter weght.........

 

my wifes 705 has no suspension either, and because of the sit up style of riding and swept back handlebars it is probably a more comfortable ride then the 905. Because unlike a crossbar bike, your weight is not on the handlebars..... So I think unless an expensive lightweight bike not worth the extra weight or hassle.

Edited May 17, 201114 yr by eddieo

Thank you Eddie. ;oP ;oP ;oP

 

Anyone else?

As a general answer not specific to the Wisper bikes, if you can manage without suspension and not suffer too much discomfort, that's the best option. Suspension adds weight, on bikes is less than adequate for reasons of economy and weight limitation, often makes steering less precise, and also usually reduces pedalling efficiency.

The heavier the bike the more you will appreciate some sort of suspension. Of course if depends on where you cycle of course but the majority of the UK's roads are falling to bits. I agree with Eddieo about the cheaper brands not being up to much (not much in the way of damping and a bit "sticky") but I did buy some Suntours for not that much money and they transformed the ride of my Ezee Torq.

I have to differ . I have a GT Mountain bike and a small Folder, both without suspension . My Batribike Folder has `cheap` front suspension forks and the ride is immediately noticeable as much more comfortable . Suspension has been invented for a reason , so why not use it !

The heavier the bike the more you will appreciate some sort of suspension. Of course if depends on where you cycle of course but the majority of the UK's roads are falling to bits. I agree with Eddieo about the cheaper brands not being up to much (not much in the way of damping and a bit "sticky") but I did buy some Suntours for not that much money and they transformed the ride of my Ezee Torq.

 

Harry, yes my 'route' to work the roads are falling to bits a lot.

I specifically bought the Kalkhoff Agattu with suspension as opposed to their other models without it.

Never regretted it for one minute, steering is as precise as my MTB without suspension and the unsprung weight is minimised. Overall weight is not a problem ebikes being fairly heavy anyway.

I'm with eddieo and flecc on this.

 

Suspension forks = more weight + poorer handling + less efficient + servicing costs. If you're cycling on the road, why bother with them?

 

It's a mystery to me why so many bikes come with suspension forks - and generally not of the best quality, emphasising their disadvantages. I'd much prefer a rigid fork option, with better brakes/gears/wheels. Perhaps a manufacturer or dealer could comment on this?

 

Slightly larger tyres should be sufficient on the road.

I'm with eddieo and flecc on this.

 

Suspension forks = more weight + poorer handling + less efficient + servicing costs. If you're cycling on the road, why bother with them?

 

It's a mystery to me why so many bikes come with suspension forks - and generally not of the best quality, emphasising their disadvantages. I'd much prefer a rigid fork option, with better brakes/gears/wheels. Perhaps a manufacturer or dealer could comment on this?

 

Slightly larger tyres should be sufficient on the road.

 

 

 

Most un-powered bikes don't need to have suspension unless they are very heavy but with most electric bikes it does make a lot of different to the shocks your wrists take. As I say if depends on the state of the roads where you live and ride and difficult to be prescriptive about this. I didn't feel the need for any suspension on my Cytronex and I would willingly swap the forks on my E-motion for rigids but both are very light electric bikes. Only front suspension is necessary as your legs can do the rear if you see the bumps coming.

I've ridden the 905 with and without front suspension, most of the time I didn't notice the difference but when I hit a big pothole without suspension I really knew it.

I don't think they provide a smooth ride but are very useful on bad roads.

One further thing to consider with electric bikes is where the motor is located. I can guarantee those that don't think a bike doesn't need suspension ride bikes where the motor is located on the rear or in the middle of the frame. Something like the Wisper 905 can get away without any suspension because the motor is on the back wheel. Put a heavy motor on the front wheel and you are really going to need suspension.

 

I found the Torq 1 really tiring riding without any suspension because the motor was hammering away un-sprung on the front wheel. Flecc moved his motor to the back wheel and solved the problem the elegant way, I changed suspension forks (and new motor at the same time) which turned it in to a very pleasant commuter bike.

Coming from a mountain bike background i can say that hardtail under £1500 ie only front suspension will be pretty poor. It is hard to believe but good bike suspension costs money. On a fully suspended bike your talking £2500 plus to get one with decent suspension. Ok there are exceptions to this but the bottom line is the suspension on current electric bikes really is crap. I would save the weight and hassle and go with a rigid bike all round.

How many times have I heard people complaining on here about poor quality suspension? This on VERY expensive bikes as well from the likes of Kalkhoff and E Motion let alone the cheaper ones......My new bike (awaiting wisper DaaHub kit!) Has decent shocks, So this is entirely different ........

 

It is the only bike I have tried that compares with X series Flyer I tried last year, can't wait for Wisper to breath some magic into it!

 

Evans Cycles | Specialized Crosstrail LTD Disc 2011 Hybrid Bike | Online Bike Shop

For me, riding a non-suspension bike on our crappy road surfaces is bearable for short distances, but after 10 miles can become very tedious and painful, The suspension front forks on most electric bikes including a lot of the more expensive bikes make it a bit more bearable, but they tend to have low-spec suspension. Upgrading to higher-spec forks makes a huge difference. I used to spend a lot of time looking at the road surface to avoid the rough patches, but since upgrading to Rock Shox Dart 3 forks, I just glide over it now, and these are not even high-spec. The handling is better than most bikes I've ridden, and I can't say that I've ever noticed any worse handling on suspension bikes. Those Reba forks on the Haibike were a class above, literally riding on air - but much more expensive.

Alex Moulton, who knows a thing or two about bikes, has always maintained that the most efficient layout is a rigid frame, bone-hard tyres and well-designed suspension. I've never had any reason to doubt that he's right. The problem is that no electric bikes are built with the structural integrity (or cost) of the Moulton AM series, so it comes down to compromise.

 

If you can't afford a bike with decent suspension (and I'd say you'd need to spend £1500+) go for a rigid bike and pump the tyres as hard as you can stand.

 

What I don't agree with (and nor does Dr Moulton) is using large-section tyres to make a rigid bike more comfortable. This comfort costs extra effort - you have to distort the tyre sidewall for every revolution. With electric assistance you may not notice it so much, but it's still there. A suspension seat-post is probably a better bet - at least you can get out of the saddle and cancel out its effect when the going gets tough.

It seems to me there must be a few cycling purists amongst members here judging by some of the comments in regard to suspension. As far as I'm concerned, given the condition of surfaces around my cycling territory, I have no desire to wear a hair shirt by riding a rigid bike like those serious club cyclists.

 

In answer to PennyFarthing's question, I have no experience of Wisper bikes so I can't comment on any difference. What I can say is this; there is no way I would consider reverting to a rigid bike after my experience of suspension-clad bikes. Those who have commented adversely on cheap suspension forks are right in my view but good quality units are vastly different. I used to wonder why I had paid so much money for my mountain bikes when friends bought bikes at less than half the cost of mine. I found out when I borrowed a friend's bike. It reminded me of an old car in need of new shock absorbers yet it wasn't an old bike.

 

Most of the towpaths and cycling tracks I use are a little on the rough side so, being as I ride for pleasure as well as fitness and part car replacement, I celebrate having suspension on my bikes. I have tried locking out the front fork on my Gazelle and on my Dawes touring bike but I very quickly changed back to softer settings.

 

Indalo

 

What I don't agree with (and nor does Dr Moulton) is using large-section tyres to make a rigid bike more comfortable. This comfort costs extra effort - you have to distort the tyre sidewall for every revolution. .

 

Schwalbe tyres would strongly disagree, and so do I. Things have moved on since Dr Moulton and today's thin tyrewalls using the latest materials lose hardly any energy in compression. Nor is there any energy loss due to the change in contact patch on the road as Schwalbe's excellent technical information explains.

 

Their large section Big Apple tyres are an excellent aid to comfort and independent roll rsistance tests show them to equal most conventional designs. Some of our most experienced members use them and have no desire to change.

Surely Moulton bikes had suspension, some sort of rubber block thing?

You can correct me if i'm wrong, it wont be the first time

My mother had some sort of moulton in the sixties and yes it did have a rubber suspension system - very comfortable it was too (not that I can remember the sixties of course).

Edited May 17, 201114 yr by HarryB

 

(not that I can remember the sixties of course).

 

 

Me neither....Interesting times apparently:confused:

I cannot get used to this new website - seems I have two comfy(s) in my post but when I go to edit it only one exists. Very odd.

Surely Moulton bikes had suspension, some sort of rubber block thing?

You can correct me if i'm wrong, it wont be the first time

 

Yes, but Moulton did say his ideal was a rigid frame, very hard tyres and suspension. Theoretically that is a good approach and it's potentially very efficient, but what made Moulton wrong was that perfect suspension cannot be had on bikes*. He even proved himself wrong by using rubber bung suspension in isolation, by common agreement the worst controlled of all suspension types.

 

*It's the huge weight variation that the rider introduces that prevents perfect suspension on bikes. Ideally suspension is designed to match the vehicle and load, and on cars for example, a near enough result is possible since the passenger load although variable is far less than the weight of the car. On bikes the widely differing rider weight always greatly exceeds the bike's weight so there are no design reference points.

 

P.S. I do remember the sixties well, one of the best decades of my life. Don't listen to prats like Tony Blair et al with their disapproval, they are either just jealous they missed that decade or didn't take advantage of it when they could.

.

Edited May 17, 201114 yr by flecc

Shame you missed the 60`s Eddieo , the white heat of Technology under Harold Wilson , collapsing rear subframes on Minis , collapsing suspension and rotting cills on Austin 1100`s , Carnaby St Fashions , smallpox outbreaks , Dr Beeching demolishing our Rail Network . Now I have told you about it you won`t have to look at the History books !

Shame you missed the 60`s Eddieo , the white heat of Technology under Harold Wilson , collapsing rear subframes on Minis , collapsing suspension and rotting cills on Austin 1100`s , Carnaby St Fashions , smallpox outbreaks , Dr Beeching demolishing our Rail Network . Now I have told you about it you won`t have to look at the History books !

 

 

..it wasn't all bad as they invented sex.

Edited May 17, 201114 yr by HarryB