Derestricting

[colonel]

Hi everyone

I am thinking of dipping my toe in the electric bike arena with two objectives.
1. Arriving at work without having a meltdown.
2. To allow my wife to accompany me on a ride, and keep up with me on my non electric bike.

I understand bikes are restricted to 15mph.
When riding to work (12miles each way) my normal average is 17/18mph, does this mean that if I could reach this speed on the electric bike I would be getting no assistance from the motor as it would have cut out? Would I be getting drag from the motor?
I understand you can derestrict most bikes, but wouldn't expect huge increases without increasing voltages, etc. Would my 17/18mph max on the flat be realistic on a stock ebike.

As previously stated I just want to dip my toe on a budget.
I was thinking of a Sirocco 2 from Woosh as a good start at £699 - 36v 15Ah battery.

Does anybody know if it is possible to derestrict this model?
I would welcome any constructive comments.

Thanks

 

[GaRRy]

Hi everyone

I am thinking of dipping my toe in the electric bike arena with two objectives.
1. Arriving at work without having a meltdown.
2. To allow my wife to accompany me on a ride, and keep up with me on my non electric bike.

I understand bikes are restricted to 15mph.
When riding to work (12miles each way) my normal average is 17/18mph, does this mean that if I could reach this speed on the electric bike I would be getting no assistance from the motor as it would have cut out? Would I be getting drag from the motor?
I understand you can derestrict most bikes, but wouldn't expect huge increases without increasing voltages, etc. Would my 17/18mph max on the flat be realistic on a stock ebike.

As previously stated I just want to dip my toe on a budget.
I was thinking of a Sirocco 2 from Woosh as a good start at £699 - 36v 15Ah battery.

Does anybody know if it is possible to derestrict this model?
I would welcome any constructive comments.

Thanks

Yes you are correct once you exceed the speed limit for assistance you are own your own.

However bare in mind that in reality most dont cut out till 17 mph as there is a allowance of 10% leeway on max speed and most make use of this.
also most of effort when riding is getting up to that speed and also trying to maintain a good speed up hill when the motor will help you keep up a higher pace so your average speed will almost certainly increase with no more effort anyway.
As for de-restricting I hope you are aware this then means your bike is illegal and while the odds of getting caught are slim in the event of anything happening you could find your self in serious trouble with the law. Probably worth trying with out derestricting first and then make a decision after trying for a while. This is a hot potato topic so dont be surprised if you get very polarised opinions on this.

Sorry dont know about the specific bike you mention.

 

[colonel]

Thanks for your comments - I didn't realise there was some leeway. I thought the controller limited speed with some form of measure off the wheel - does it just limit speed by a theoretical setting based on motor max revolutions or wheel size/revolutions.
Unfortunately the idea was to arrive at work with LESS effort but the same average speed - I cannot see me increasing my average with a much heavier bike. I will just have to settle for a slower time and enjoy the countryside!

Thanks again for your info.

 

[flecc]

Hi Colonel

The speed limiting varies according to the design. Most limit at the hub motor's controller and those are usually strictly limited at about 15 mph. Some hub motor bikes are designed to run out of steam on the supply voltage at about 15 mph, and tbose run to a higher speed on a freshly charged battery, typically about 17 mph, but as the battery empties they slow and can end up at a bit below 15 mph. A few of the restricted ones can be derestricted to increase to about 18 mph, but that information often has to coaxed out of suppliers, though the method for some models is known to forum members

The crank motor units that drive through the bike's chain are usually limited by a magnet and sensor on the rear wheel of the bike and they limit to about 15 mph consistently. The 26 volt Panasonic crank drive units have internal motor limiting and bikes using those can be made faster by merely changing the rear chain sprocket to a smaller size, raising the gearing. That's easiest done if a bike model with hub gears is chosen since it's only a simple sprocket change then. The assist speed on those can sometimes be changed to as much as 20 mph, but that drastically shortens the range since the motor is operating more of the time.
.

 

[103Alex1]

The 26 volt Panasonic crank drive units have internal motor limiting and bikes using those can be made faster by merely changing the rear chain sprocket to a smaller size, raising the gearing. That's easiest done if a bike model with hub gears is chosen since it's only a simple sprocket change then. The assist speed on those can sometimes be changed to as much as 20 mph, but that drastically shortens the range since the motor is operating more of the time.
.

Do you know what the score is with the Impulse system ?

 

[colonel]

Thanks fflecc
That was the sort of concise info I was looking for.

Can I be a pain and ask you another?

I notice that controllers are often rated as 24v to 48v ish and with a max current.
Do the handlebar controllers come with a matched electrical control box or can you mix and match if voltage /current compatible.
I note that the range of bikes that I am interested in, low end to mid range, often use a 790 king meter.
However, some other king meter variants have lcd displays and trip computers - I would like to uprate to this type if possible. I have looked around for a circuit diagram and even requested the manual as offered on the king web site but have found nothing yet - do you know if one exists or if you receive that sort of data in the bike manual?

Although I have been off-road mountain biking for the last 20years, this is my first real foray onto the roads and electric bikes. I have loads of "dumb" questions to ask, is there anywhere you can steer me to initiate me into the black art!

Thanks again.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi
colonel
No you cant jut change the display as the display and controller are a matched pair our new kit uses a LCD display and has a RX TX witch talk to the controller and receives back information Updating the display

Hi are you far from Banbury You are welcome for a test ride


Frank

 

[morphix]

Welcome colonel! I can't comment on any specific bikes, only from my own (limited) experience in self-building.. but I've found even with a low-powered bike (250W 36V 10AH) it can really move and maintaining speeds above 17mph on the flat without hardly pedalling much is not difficult at all. The trick is in having the big highly geared enough to keep up with the motor at full power if you want to go fast. I regularly got speeds like 22-23mph on mine without breaking a sweat. Like others have said, the motor doesn't automatically cut out bang on 15.5mph in the real-world, and also, you'll find in the real-world experience, the bike just propels along at much higher speed if you keep pedaling and the motor just keeps kicking in whenever the speed drops a bit. The only way I can explain it is, imagine riding a bike in top gear...on a normal bike unless you were very fit that would kill your knees and legs... but with the motor that top gear feels like a much lower gear and because it's a top gear each crank arm rotation moves you considerably further.. hence loads more speed..and the motor effect as I said just keeps the bike in that easy pedalling zone, regardless of what incline or hills you face.

I think that size battery would be ok for your requirements providing you pedal. The best thing with buying a bike is to test ride if you can before you buy, or get some feedback from different owners. The main thing as I mentioned is the gearing, be sure you can pedal easily at the highest power level if it's speed you're after. Else consider altering the gearing to your requirements..I think some e-bikes (and kits) are very much under-geared for pedalling at highest power levels. Also check the weight of the bike and aim for one lighter one if you can, the lighter the bike obviously the less weight you're pulling and more efficient.

I'm only a light fella myself (9-10 stone) and my bike is 21kg so if you're heavier and/or you buy a much heavier bike your mileage might be different.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The various King meters are matched to the controllers, and depending which one you have, share control software with the controller. I'd be very surprised if you could swap the panels, but you can swap the pair (panel and controller), which costs about £60 from China.. The type with a 790 can be overvolted a bit (maybe 48v actual max), but you lose the correct battery meter LED function. The different controllers handle speed limits in different ways;however, it is normally possible to remove the speed limit, but, don't expect much change if your motor is only wound for 18mph, which is very common.

If you're serious about getting more speed or power out of your motor by over-volting and turning up the current a bit, it would probably be easier to get a new controller as they don't cost much, and if you like fancy displays, where you can set power or speed, get a Cycle Analyst or Speedict.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Colonel,

The eZee bikes and kits we supply can be derestricted for use on private land, but this makes them illegal to ride on public roads and cycle paths.

The 25 kmph / 15.5 mph law applies to all electrically assisted bikes.

This law is ignored by many, and it is a risk they take.

 

[flecc]

Do you know what the score is with the Impulse system ?

Yes, it's the rear wheel magnet and sensor type, limited to 15.6 mph. If the magnet and sensor are swapped to a crank and the crankcase or adjacent frame, since these turn more slowly in top gear it may be possible to remove the limitation. It was originally possible to do that on the Bosch system but I've read that they've defeated that option now. Therefore I can't guarantee it will work on the Impulse unit.

Of course on either it will invalidate the warranty.

 

[colonel]

Thanks for all your comments.
At this stage I'm not seriously try to add a jet pack!
My main aim, if possible, was to "tweek" a basic low end bike like a Woosh Sirocco 2 (or similar) to enable my wife to keep up with me on my non electric bike at about 17m/hr max.
From what you're all saying it looks like it will or very close.

I live up north near Preston so Banbury is a little far to pop down. However, we stop in Banbury or Stratford to break our journey when visiting family in Reading, so will look you up on a future trip Frank.
Perhaps I should do a custom job on one of my light weight, full suspension mountain bikes???

Thanks all

 

[morphix]

Thanks for all your comments.

Perhaps I should do a custom job on one of my light weight, full suspension mountain bikes???

Thanks all

That sounds like a good plan if you already have a good bike and you're just looking to dip your toes into e-biking as you said. With self-conversion you have a lot more flexibility and the cost can be very low compared to buying a bike, even significantly less than a budget bike. If you feel confident enough to have a go doing it, it's not that difficult and there's always people on hand here to help if you run into problems...