Delimiting / tuning

[Carlbiker]

Okay I love my 625 kathundu bike but then limiter is just plain stupid, it slows me down, I live in Leeds does anyone know a place to get it sorted or is it better to buy the speedbox thingy?

cheers

 

[Spitz]

There is no limiter as such, particularly on bikes fitted with the recent generation Bosch motors. Once you are past 15.5Mph all effort toward forward motion is your own, but the motor itself is not working against you, just the weight of the bike itself.

 

[Edward Elizabeth]

You can buy speed pedelecs that don't cut out the power at 15.5mph.

 

[Nealh]

One can also buy dongles for mid drive bikes or simply find hills to go down.

 

[flecc]

Okay I love my 625 kathundu bike but then limiter is just plain stupid, it slows me down, I live in Leeds

It's the law, or don't you have that in Leeds?
.

 

[Amoto65]

Okay I love my 625 kathundu bike but then limiter is just plain stupid, it slows me down, I live in Leeds does anyone know a place to get it sorted or is it better to buy the speedbox thingy?

If you De-restrict the bike not only will you invalidate your warranty and have an illegal bike, but you will also risk the engine going into limp mode.

 

[egroover]

Don't the 2020 Bosch bikes have software that can detect dongles if fitted ? I think they go into limp mode. I'd be worried with invalidating the warranty on a new £2.6k bike if the dealer can detect the use of a dongle in the event of there being a need for it to be fixed under warranty.
Self build is the way to go if you want faster, or, as mentioned a registered speed pedelec

 

[soundwave]

if you want a dongle and warranty buy it from ebike shop as they fit dongles and honor the warranty.

all dongles still work on the 2020 bikes but a future firmware update could stop them working esp if wired in to the motor.

Tuning Dongle Kit for Bosch e-bikes – e-bikeshop.co.uk

Our Bosch Tuning dongles are the answer if you get fed up with hitting the speed cut off on Bosch powered electric e-bikes.

www.e-bikeshop.co.uk

 

[Amoto65]

if you want a dongle and warranty buy it from ebike shop as they fit dongles and honor the warranty.

Allegedly, plus as he already has the bike that is not going to happen, hence his warranty would be invalid.

 

[soundwave]

Allegedly, plus as he already has the bike that is not going to happen, hence his warranty would be invalid.

dealers nor bosch can say 100% if a dongle has been used thus why ebike shop fits and sells them with warranty. i also know another shop that does this.

a dongle wont brake a motor as it just removes the speed limit and the only difference between the sclass motors is the software as there both the same inside.

 

[Amoto65]

dealers nor bosch can say 100% if a dongle has been used thus why ebike shop fits and sells them with warranty. i also know another shop that does this.

As I said before irrelevant as he already has the bike. I certainly wouldn't risk it on hearsay.

 

[soundwave]

As I said before irrelevant as he already has the bike. I certainly wouldn't risk it on hearsay.

@Electric Transport Shop
Official Trade Member
Nov 13, 2018
Hi Soundwave,
I hope you're keeping well and enjoying your e-bike.
I just noticed your post suggesting that e-bikeshop are the only dealer that will fit dongles and honour warranties and because you're a very active member just wanted to let you know that this is also the case for us at electricbikesales.co.uk
In fact we've been providing fast ebikes for commuting and fun loving e-bikers since 2005.

I hope you don't mind me contacting you about this.

i have had a dongle on my bike since 2014, never been a problem

 

[graywok]

There is no limiter as such, particularly on bikes fitted with the recent generation Bosch motors. Once you are past 15.5Mph all effort toward forward motion is your own, but the motor itself is not working against you, just the weight of the bike itself.

Its primarily the air resistance working against you , the weight of the bike per se is almost irrelevant once moving on a flat road. Up a hill it becomes relevant but only as a combination of rider + bike weight.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Okay I love my 625 kathundu bike but then limiter is just plain stupid, it slows me down, I live in Leeds does anyone know a place to get it sorted or is it better to buy the speedbox thingy?

cheers

I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but when an e-bike motor cuts out at 25 KMH, as the law requires, naturally to keep going you need more muscle "input". But it should not slow down the bike at all, so do test it on a good downhill run (as someone else also suggested), and keep an eye on your Tachometer. Watch exactly what happens when the motor cuts out.
On a steep hill, especially if you are also pedalling, if you then slow down, your motor is doing something wrong, IMHO.
If the bike does slow down in the way you said, that to me means that the motor is not being "disengaged" from the drive system, either electrically or mechanically, or remotely possible, both.
Hopefully there is someone here that can define that possibility more accurately than I can.
Once the drive system (chain system) is turning at a faster road speed than the motor legally can, it should be somehow both mechanically and electrically, "disengaged" in some way, just like a normal bike freewheel does. Only old fashioned bikes once had a so called "fixed wheel", where the pedals MUST keep turning, because there is no "free wheel" fitted.
I myself do not like or know that much about mid motor bikes, but that is how a good hub motor reacts, when you travel faster than the motor can legally rotate at, even though on a hub it is still rotating, there is a freewheel effect......not a braking effect.
Regards
Andy

 

[vfr400]

I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but when an e-bike motor cuts out at 25 KMH, as the law requires, naturally to keep going you need more muscle "input". But it should not slow down the bike at all, so do test it on a good downhill run (as someone else also suggested), and keep an eye on your Tachometer. Watch exactly what happens when the motor cuts out.
On a steep hill, especially if you are also pedalling, if you then slow down, your motor is doing something wrong, IMHO.
If the bike does slow down in the way you said, that to me means that the motor is not being "disengaged" from the drive system, either electrically or mechanically, or remotely possible, both.
Hopefully there is someone here that can define that possibility more accurately than I can.
Once the drive system (chain system) is turning at a faster road speed than the motor legally can, it should be somehow both mechanically and electrically, "disengaged" in some way, just like a normal bike freewheel does. Only old fashioned bikes once had a so called "fixed wheel", where the pedals MUST keep turning, because there is no "free wheel" fitted.
I myself do not like or know that much about mid motor bikes, but that is how a good hub motor reacts, when you travel faster than the motor can legally rotate at, even though on a hub it is still rotating, there is a freewheel effect......not a braking effect.
Regards
Andy

Of course you'll slow down. You have three forces pushing you down the hill. There's the effect of gravity on your mass (weight), your pedal force and the force the motor applies. When the motor cuts, you only have the two forces, which are less, so you slow down. That's the same whether you go up or down hills.

On the flat or up a slight incline, when you're pedalling at a rate of about 100w with something like 200w assistance from the motor, it's going to be like hitting a wall when the motor cuts because you'll only have 1/3 as much power, which won't be enough to sustain your speed. This gives the iĺlusion of resistance or riding through treacle.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Of course you'll slow down. You have three forces pushing you down the hill. There's the effect of gravity on your mass (weight), your pedal force and the force the motor applies. When the motor cuts, you only have the two forces, which are less, so you slow down. That's the same whether you go up or down hills.

On the flat or up a slight incline, when you're pedalling at a rate of about 100w with something like 200w assistance from the motor, it's going to be like hitting a wall when the motor cuts because you'll only have 1/3 as much power, which won't be enough to sustain your speed. This gives the iĺlusion of resistance or riding through treacle.

As a form of a test, I spoke of a hill, a steep hill, one that any bike will actually speed up on simply due to the forces of gravity. With or without motor assistance.
Then if when the 25KMH speed is reached, a normal e-bike will continue to speed up, but not as fast as when the motor was assisting of course, BUT IT SHOULD NOT SUDDENLY SLOW DOWN, which is my take from what the OP originally wrote!
If the OP could correct my understanding of what he meant, if I have misunderstood him in any way.

Which is why I started my previous post with:-
Andy-Mat said: -
I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but when an e-bike motor cuts out at 25 KMH, as the law requires........

Understood now?
Andy

 

[maccer]

I have a Haibike Hardnine and want to derestrict the bike for use off road. Having looked at the tuning box solution and the move sensor to crank solution , I am looking for something simpler. I saw online several posts stating that moving the magnet & sensor will not increase assisted top speed beyond the 15mph limit...why?
Taking a very simplistic view, the bikes computer sees the RPM from the magnet/sensor and using the stored computer setting for wheel size, cuts the power at a certain RPM. So lets say the setting is 1 rev per second equates to 15mph. For visualisation if you could fit a 10ft wheel instead and place the magnet/sensor near the wheel rim, then your 1rps will increase your travelled distance by a huge factor which also means your speed increases too. Therefore moving the magnet/sensor on your existing wheel outwards will achieve the same effect, albeit by a much smaller margin. I estimated 30mm movement will increase speed assist limit by 3mph or am I missing something?

 

[StuartsProjects]

Therefore moving the magnet/sensor on your existing wheel outwards will achieve the same effect, albeit by a much smaller margin. I estimated 30mm movement will increase speed assist limit by 3mph or am I missing something?

Wherever the magnet is on the spoke, the time gap between pulses will not change.

 

[cyclebuddy]

I estimated 30mm movement will increase speed assist limit by 3mph or am I missing something?

One rotation of a wheel is one rotation and therefore one pulse to the controller- whatever the wheel size. What you're missing is that the controller is already set for the wheel circumference to determine the distance travelled and also gauge the speed.

A common trick on many low-cost e-bikes with a program menu available is to reduce the wheel size setting to fool the controller about the distance and speed, thus making the bike go faster. You can't do that with Bosch/Yamaha/Shimano etc.

Even on those bikes though, there's an increase in the number of bike makers now taking that facility out to prevent users doing this.