Decisions, decisions... e-MTB

[mab13]

Afternoon all,

New member alert!

I’ve officially met myself coming backwards in my research and not sure whether I need help / support or just the opportunity to explain my first world predicament to people who might care.

I own a Cube Reaction carbon frame hardtail mountain bike with 26” wheels and decent spec (XT / SLX componentry). I love the bike but it doesn’t get anywhere near the use it deserves, mainly because I work very long hours and struggle to find the time / struggle to muster up the energy to get out cycling as much as I’d like. For reference, I live in the Peak District and any which way I pull out of my driveway means hills – both on and off road – so a level of assistance would undoubtedly get me out significantly more.

At first I thought about converting the Cube, but concluded that the (significant) additional weight of a hub motor, etc. would compromise the bike plus the integration and looks would fall short of what I’m wanting. Then I thought about the Gruber Assist but concluded that wasn’t right as the assistance provided is insufficient and the cost of the kit alone would get me on a high quality purpose built pedelec.

So, after a fair amount of googling, the search for a Bosch Performance powered mountain bike (or potentially cross bike) began.

My initial research took my directly to Haibike, then to Cube which seems to have marginally better spec componentry for the same price, and then to KTM which seems to have marginally better componentry than Cube for the same price. They’re the three main manufacturers I’ve been looking at plus I know there are a fair few others out there (should I be considering more than these three?).

Decision still needs to be made re: hardtail vs FS – I don’t really need FS for the majority of my riding (though I would benefit for a small proportion), but then I’ve never ridden a 20kg bike before and I imagine FS makes it much more comfortable in certain situations. So I’m favouring hardtail MTB, considering FS MTB and also considering a cross bike as the KTM Macina Cross 10 GPS+ looks pretty good value. Budget isn’t limitless but is healthy – I’m looking to hit the ‘sweet spot’ of the range. Also, I would definitely consider pre-owned.

I don’t expect anyone to make the decision for me (!), but I do want to know whether or not there is a particular brand (remember I’m preferring the Bosch Performance unit) which is acknowledged as being the best bang for your buck?

I’ll continue to peruse the site for inspiration and to read the various thoughts and reviews and see what more information I can glean from the boards.

Anyway… thanks for listening!

Mark

 

[EddiePJ]

I have mixed feeling about FS. I own both set ups, and yes the Fox set up on Macina GPS Plus is superb, and I'll try to post up a video later comparing a bumpy forest section that was ridden once on the FS and once on the HT. The FS was 11 seconds faster over the route ( currently don't have the distance to hand) and the ride was super smooth (ish)
The FS definitely has a comfort advantage, but I've never found a HT to be uncomfortable either.
The advantage of a HT is less moving parts, and simplicity. FS is wasted during the wet winter months.

I believe that the KTM Macina GPS plus has just come in at third spot in the 2015 World E-Bike Championshi.

One question that I would ask yourself, is do you need NYON? I found that it is a waste of time on an e-mtb. It is too big and baulky and doesn't belong on an off road biased bike. Perhaps take a look at the non GPS models, and save your self some money.

In respect of weight, I clearly notice the difference when switching from riding the pedal mtb to the e-mtb. The pedal bike is so much more agile, and in many respects, more fun to ride.
The main time that you will notice the extra weight of the e-mtb, is when you come to lift/carry the bike over an obstacle. Gateways being the worse!
The other time that you will notice it is when trying to hop over obstacles. Bunny hops are quite an art on an e-mtb, but once you have the technique they are 'relatively' easy to do. The faster that you can go, the easier that they are to perform.

A Macina Action HT comes in at around 19kg, so not so bad.

Maintenance is just the same as any other bike, the wheels are easy to remove in the event of a puncture.

edit.. Not sure if this is a UK available bike, but this would be my choice of HT. I'd remove the Nyon though. http://www.ktm-bikes.at/en/bikes/e-bike.html?action=bike_details&bike_id=79&cHash=2f58f4a5301c882623c8e4a42acf7076




.

 

[mab13]

Great point – no, I don’t believe I need the Nyon so that could save me £300 straight away.

Funnily enough, the KTM Macina Action Plus (I’m inclined to go 27.5 rather than 29, but that’s another decision to be made!) is where I’m thinking the sweet spot is. Good weight at only 19kg, good spec (although I don’t know much about the RockShox XC32) and a comparatively good price at £2,200.

I may have the option to pick up a pre-owned, with limited use, KTM Macina Lycan GPS+ for a little less than £3000. This is where the decision becomes more difficult as I don’t need what that extra c.£700 gets me, but do I want it?

 

[mab13]

edit.. Not sure if this is a UK available bike, but this would be my choice of HT. I'd remove the Nyon though. http://www.ktm-bikes.at/en/bikes/e-bike.html?action=bike_details&bike_id=79&cHash=2f58f4a5301c882623c8e4a42acf7076

That would be this one... same spec but with RockShox Reba instead of the Fox forks:

http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0061_kt/ktm-macina-race-27-plus-2015-electric-bike

The GPS+ looks better with the orange detailing though!

 

[soundwave]

id not bother with nyon as it wont work if you are going to use a dongle anyway.
and any smart phone will be way better anyway.

i got my haibike from ebay and saved near half the price of it from new.

seen this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-FS-Mountain-Bike-Haibike-xDuro-FullSeven-RC-2015-20-Bosch-27-27-5-650B-/151722564465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23535e9b71

 

[EddiePJ]

Great point – no, I don’t believe I need the Nyon so that could save me £300 straight away.

Funnily enough, the KTM Macina Action Plus (I’m inclined to go 27.5 rather than 29, but that’s another decision to be made!) is where I’m thinking the sweet spot is. Good weight at only 19kg, good spec (although I don’t know much about the RockShox XC32) and a comparatively good price at £2,200.

I may have the option to pick up a pre-owned, with limited use, KTM Macina Lycan GPS+ for a little less than £3000. This is where the decision becomes more difficult as I don’t need what that extra c.£700 gets me, but do I want it?

Also funnily enough, I was having a chat today with a mate that owns a LBS about wheel sizes, offset, hub sizes and bottom bracket sizes. I've also been on a ride where there were three of us riding each common size, and have to say that the 29ner did creep away when we tried side by side tests. As things stand though and If you intend to ride hard, I'd be more inclined to stick to 650b.

I'd don't know anything about Rockshox XC32 either, but I have experience of both Rockshox Reba and Fox 32 Float. The Reba is a very nice and dependable fork, but the Fox 32 is definitely up another level or so. The Fox shock, forks and colour were my sole reason for buying the GPS+. I didn't actually want the Nyon system, but the other Macina Lycan in the KTM line up wasn't to my required spec.

To me that pre owned Lycan GPS+ sounds very over priced. I value my own bike at around £1,400.00 tops on a good day. Mechanically mine wants for nothing, has Nyon and Intuvia, but shows plenty of wear and tear marks through hard use. Having said that, all marks are on the swingarm, so a quick respray, would have that sorted.
I'd value a mint privately sold bike at around £2,000-£2,250.00 Not that I have ever seen more than one for sale, and that bike has been on Ebay for a very long time now. Obviously everyone has their own opinion of what their bike is worth.

It's a shame that you weren't around here, as you would have been more than welcome to have had a play on my bike.

I think that the main thing that you need to think about, is do you really need FS for the few months of the year when it's really going to make a difference. I still can't make my own mind up about that one.

 

[martin@onbike]

That would be this one... same spec but with RockShox Reba instead of the Fox forks:

http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/ele_0061_kt/ktm-macina-race-27-plus-2015-electric-bike

The GPS+ looks better with the orange detailing though!

Got these, and plenty of others in stock if you fancy a trip down to see us.
http://www.onbike.co.uk/electricbikes/ktm-macina-race-27-plus/

 

[mab13]

Also funnily enough, I was having a chat today with a mate that owns a LBS about wheel sizes, offset, hub sizes and bottom bracket sizes. I've also been on a ride where there were three of us riding each common size, and have to say that the 29ner did creep away when we tried side by side tests. As things stand though and If you intend to ride hard, I'd be more inclined to stick to 650b.

I'd don't know anything about Rockshox XC32 either, but I have experience of both Rockshox Reba and Fox 32 Float. The Reba is a very nice and dependable fork, but the Fox 32 is definitely up another level or so. The Fox shock, forks and colour were my sole reason for buying the GPS+. I didn't actually want the Nyon system, but the other Macina Lycan in the KTM line up wasn't to my required spec.

To me that pre owned Lycan GPS+ sounds very over priced. I value my own bike at around £1,400.00 tops on a good day. Mechanically mine wants for nothing, has Nyon and Intuvia, but shows plenty of wear and tear marks through hard use. Having said that, all marks are on the swingarm, so a quick respray, would have that sorted.
I'd value a mint privately sold bike at around £2,000-£2,250.00 Not that I have ever seen more than one for sale, and that bike has been on Ebay for a very long time now. Obviously everyone has their own opinion of what their bike is worth.

It's a shame that you weren't around here, as you would have been more than welcome to have had a play on my bike.

I think that the main thing that you need to think about, is do you really need FS for the few months of the year when it's really going to make a difference. I still can't make my own mind up about that one.

Sorry, 'pre-owned' was a poor choice of words... 'demo' would have been a better description. However, I'm in the same mindset as you that I think it's overpriced for a bike that's been used.

I would, however, snap your hand off at £1,400 and I'd have thought others would too. Waiting for a well-priced pre-owned is probably the sensible option but then treating yourself to something new and shiny is always nice and avoids the frustrating wait...

As for FS, realistically I'm likely to go hardtail unless a very good deal pops up on FS. You're absolutely right that I don't need it so it's an unnecessary additional cost if buying new.

 

[mab13]

id not bother with nyon as it wont work if you are going to use a dongle anyway.
and any smart phone will be way better anyway.

i got my haibike from ebay and saved near half the price of it from new.

seen this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-FS-Mountain-Bike-Haibike-xDuro-FullSeven-RC-2015-20-Bosch-27-27-5-650B-/151722564465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23535e9b71

Thanks.

I have seen that one but I'm after 18", not 20".

 

[mab13]

Got these, and plenty of others in stock if you fancy a trip down to see us.
http://www.onbike.co.uk/electricbikes/ktm-macina-race-27-plus/

Thanks.

I'd love to pop down but you're 100 miles and a couple of hours drive so not somewhere I'm close to on a regular basis. I could do with finding a free Saturday to have a proper look at the various options you have in stock!

 

[martin@onbike]

No worries...if you do decide to come down, please call us the day before to ensure we still have a particular model of interest still in stock. The stocks change on a daily basis, and I would hate to disappoint after a journey to see something specific.

 

[EddiePJ]

I would, however, snap your hand off at £1,400 and I'd have thought others would too. Waiting for a well-priced pre-owned is probably the sensible option but then treating yourself to something new and shiny is always nice and avoids the frustrating wait...

I'm keeping mine for a while yet. That was the figure that I feel that it's now worth. Things might change when I see the 2016 model range.

But to make you feel better, mine is the large frame size, and it is large. I'm 5'10" tall, with a 32" inside leg, but find that I struggle to find a frame size that feels just right for me. The medium frame size of the KTM I found just a touch too small, and the seat post is maxed out, but the large is just slightly too big.

Something will come up though, but I hadn't really thought about it until now, you just don't see KTM e-mtb's up for sale, and even Macina road bikes are few and far between. Good for resale values I guess though.