Dealing with Problem Teens

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
This is a continuation by request of this post of mine in the main forum, where I was asked to give more examples of dealing with problems.

Throughout you'll see good humour, kindness and respect, never any confrontational words, but complete confidence. This last is very important, not arrogant confidence but the laid back relaxed kind that the kids themselves aspire too and respect. I made the comparison with animals in that earlier posting, and the kids should indeed be approached in the way we do with aggressive dogs if we are sensible. That's never showing fear since that winds up the dogs (and kids), worsening their behaviour, just giving the impression of being in control through calm confidence.

These examples are all minor incidents, but they could all have easily become major ones with the sort of mishandling that's so common.

1) At the entrance to a nature reserve in the country with no-one else around I came across three teens, one starting to spray graffiti on a signboard as the others watched. They immediately stared aggressively at me expecting the usual either timid or confrontational response, but I completely ignored what they were doing but gave them a warm friendly smile and said "Hi", carrying on though the gate. A few yards further on I permitted myself a glance back and sure enough, as expected they were walking away, spraying abandoned.

Why? It's simple really. It's often said, including by the kids, that they do these things out of boredom, but that's an oversimplification. They do something because they are bored, but it's bad because they are, as Alex says, often resentful, disillusioned and angry and want to protest at their lot in life. If confronted their protest has done what they wanted, they get satisfaction and the bad behaviour is reinforced and repeated. If their protest is apparently not noticed, it becomes pointless, so they tend to look for something else to do.

2) In a similar incident I added a completely unexpected element. As I turned a corner walking quietly I came across two kids who had pulled a very full waste bin under a bus shelter, one just lighting a match and throwing the box into the bin, apparently intending to set light to it. Surprised by my sudden presence and pausing, the match went out. I smiled sympathetically saying "Last match?", then reaching for a pocket I knew was empty I said, "here you are" but feigning disappointment said, "Oh sorry, I left my lighter at home". I walked on leaving them with a surprised look on their faces, and moments later they wandered off as expected, talking to each other. Again what they were doing had lost its point.

3) A young offender employee of a few weeks turned up at work with an expensive music player which I knew he couldn't possibly have afforded or been given. It was important that he knew that I knew it was stolen goods, but outright asking or accusing would produce an explosive response from this West Indian background 17 year old. So I asked to hear it, had a listen and congratulated him on it's quality, adding, "Well X, either you're much richer than I thought or you can run faster than the shop assistant". He immediately laughed and with a grin repeated the words "I can run faster than the shop assistant". Job done, he'd admitted to me it was stolen property and since he knew with certainty I wouldn't approve, that was all that was necessary. Rome wasn't built in a day, and with young offenders progress consists of many very small steps in partnership.

4) A cycling one. On my local Courtwood Lane in the estate i was confronted by a bunch of five older teens who'd been causing increasingly confrontational trouble in the neighbourhoods, and in my case they were deliberately walking back and forth in the road in my way to stop me cycling through. I stopped, and looked at them in a serious way without saying anything at first, letting them increasingly expect an angry reaction. When I did speak I said, "Now then, I'll tell Father Christmas". Of course they burst into derisory laughter, at which I looked disappointed and said "Oh no, don't tell me you don't believe in Father Christmas", one responded with sarcastic chuckling "of course not", so I responded with a feigned shocked look and said "What! Next you'll be telling me there's no Tooth Fairy".

More bursting into laughter, at which I dropped the act and said with a smile "Have a nice day lads" and started to cycle on, the one in front of the bike moving out of the way for me.

5) One I am rather proud of, stopping a mugging from some 25 yards away without a single spoken word. In my area as in many London Boroughs, we suffer from numerous young on young muggings. Riding along the road towards Selsdon I saw a young teen on a pavement scooter bowling along in the direction of the Monks Hill council estate, then noticed a nudge between two older teens who manouvred into position to waylay the younger kid, an obvious mugging about to take place. I stopped and stared intently towards the incident and the one in front of the kid looking around warily spotted me at which I raised an eyebrow and gave a knowing slight smile. He said something to the other teen who looked round and then stepped back, allowing the younger kid to shoot off. Both teens then looked at me again with obviously embarrassed smiles, to which I smiled and carried on cycling, them carrying on walking in the same direction towards Selsdon.

Some would say I should have reported this incident, but that's wrong. The police couldn't do anything even when the teens were identified, which would leave them with feeling they'd beaten the police and me. By leaving things as they were, they'd lost, I'd won, and they'd been left embarrassed, not an experience they'd want to repeat in a hurry.

I've got many more examples, but you can see my common themes. Never any direct verbal confrontation, plenty of friendly reaction, minimal and often no indication of disapproval, and liberal use of surprise elements, behaviour totally unexpected of an adult.

Again many would say youth misbehaviour should be confronted, but to what end? The only possible purpose would be to point out that what they are doing is wrong, but that's pointless. They know what they are doing is wrong, that's why they are doing it!
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tonio

Pedelecer
Aug 15, 2009
48
0
Well Fleck,your probably right 90% of the time in your advice on dealing with teens.For 5% id flee, walk, or hopefully pedal with throttle assist on a fast ebike and the other 5% it might be neccessary to defend oneself to get out of a nasty situation,purely to enable escape mind and not because we have aspirations of becoming the justice league of ebikers! The sticking point is where one is a victim of assault or in defence of personal property and what is justifiable defence, are we; a.{overreacting for vengeful motives?}, b. acting sensible{self preservation} or c. acting on self respect or is it selfish pride? {been there did that,got the kicking}dont regret it but on hindsight should have paid more attention to point b. as many have suffered much worse.
Anyway Im posting on this thread partly because ive followed the topic but mostly because i need advice on my bike.This is my first post and im new to pedelec/ebikes.Id been using my sons alien lynx which is in my very limited opinion a great foldup 24v 10ah.Problems, no way of getting 6th gear and limited range but great fun and the first time id ridden a bike for 12yrs after two back operations. My son uses the throttle assist heavily as he has myotonic muscular dystrophy but i was able to get 15+ miles over mixed terrain until i decided to leave the lads bike his own before my 14st weight ran the battery down and get my own machine.
After checking with posts on this site which is agreat help i bought a 2yr old torq. I adjusted the handlebars to suit my back problem and replaced the narrow ezee seat with a double springed on from an old scooter which i had been using while on the lynx {which id changed to a 48 spoke front sprocket to compensate for lack of sixth gear, i know leave the kids bike alone before you break it like i did his sisters plastic 12 v quad which i converted to 36v and she was afraid to get on it which was just as well as it eventually melted!}
Well to cut a long story short although i was assured the batteries were good on the Torq the li-on has barely given me 5 miles after much charging and cuts out on any hill or sometime just on the level.The nim-h gave me 19miles after its first charge and from that epic journey i know the Torq is potentially agreat bike and ebike= a sense of freedom that the car can never give. Since then however both batteries are disappointing to say the least.The nim-h gives about 6 miles and the lion is almost what we call round here potato bread, that is dead.On top of that i was getting 5 repeats on the red light indicator and then no power to the motor so i checked the wiring and power came on when i pushed the throttle cable in and taped it up for about 2days than it failed completely.I then replaced the throttle as per manual £50 inc postage which got the bike going again in its weakened state .Iwas a bit worried about the loud motor noises,{the lynx is quiet 4mths old} until i read that the Torq does that till its going a bit quicker but i checked all the wiring for signs of damage and resealed with selfamalgamating tape anyway according to your good advice. The problem is i think the problem might be the battery but theres no way i can pay £395 for a new one especially as it could be the bike itself. Can you or anyone in the ebike community give me some advice? Ive priced some sla 12v 12ah batteries and might mount them on the panniers to see is it totally a battery issue. That all said i really like the torq 1 and would like to see it run as it should but funds wont stretch much farther, going on holiday the 29th.
Thanks for all your help and for this forum.Are there any more n.ireland members? or does anyone know of somewhere hopefully in the belfast area i can get the bike checked out? Am i odd because i love ebikes or am i just odd?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
It is the battery Tonio, most li-ion batteries only last about two yeas at best, and the phylion ones that eZee often used to fail much earlier, mainly due to the tough working conditions imposed by the powerful motor.

Although the NiMh ones stood up to the demands much better initially, those from more recent years have also been poor. There's a different reason for that, namely that the rush into lithium batteries meant the battery manufacturers abandoned making high discharge rate D cells since e-bikes were about the only user of them.

Some have used three SLA (lead acid) batteries mounted on the rack in a box or bag and that can be much cheaper, but they are very heavy.

On the other subject, apart from my army years, my experience with the teens has all been London based, so not everything translates to other regions. I know that Northern Ireland in particular is a different case due to the very different circumstances there, both past and present. I was there regularly during the troubles, like many business people staying in the Europa and using a hired car, partly in connection with a company depot in Whiteabbey. My contact with the people was all with adults of course, both local and those from Eire coming over the border to meet with me during visits, so I wouldn't venture to say what's best when coping with your youngsters. Your (b), acting sensibly, has to be a favourite though.

We do have at least two other NI members, but I don't recollect their user names offhand.
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tonio

Pedelecer
Aug 15, 2009
48
0
battery problem

Thanks for your quick reply Fleck.
Ill try the sla batteries then and hope the price for the ezee batteries goes down over time.They cant be much heavier than my 2 present batteries that get me not far anyhow.
N.ireland is a far better place now than it was during the troubles. Its only sick people who want to return to those days and anyone who lived through it who has any sense doesnt want to go back there.
Im sure London can be rough too and your method is the best one in almost every situation and the older i get the more i intend to use it.
Im off now for a spin on the old Torq,avoiding badly surfaced roads,bad gear changes{another problem with this bike} and altercations with any drunken teenagers who might be in my path and hopefully still having power left by about the 6 mile mark and home again via tescoes.The raleigh avenir panniers can carry quite a bit, and hide the soon to be installed sla batteries im sure.
Peace, man.
 

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