Days numbered for over 250w pedelecs??

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/04/french-mayor-warns-holidaymakers-illegal-electric-bikes/

 

Will authorities bother to even try and differentiate. All those folk riding illegal bikes will get us all banned.

Owners are boosting the power of their e-bikes themselves by following online instructions that explain how to make the relatively simple adaptations required. They are capable of reaching 30 miles per hour without pedalling,

 

Surely a gross exaggeration?

Owners are boosting the power of their e-bikes themselves by following online instructions that explain how to make the relatively simple adaptations required. They are capable of reaching 30 miles per hour without pedalling,

 

Surely a gross exaggeration?

 

Perhaps so but it's only a matter of time before someone is injured by an ebike/pedelec. If it happens to be illegal what will happen ?

I bought my Haibike 2nd hand fitted with a dongle. Previous owner boasted how he could make his journey into Sheffield along tow path averaging 20 mph. I didn't believe him but on a very quiet midweek early morning session I averaged 18 mph around Lady Bower. My best unpowered is circa10 mph. I removed the dongle.

Having capability to go around off-road routes approaching motor bike speeds (reckon I, d only average 20 mph or so on my AJP, if I were allowed ) should not be what pedelecs are about and will lead to regulations stopping us all.

Looks like it might happen in place mentioned in link.

Perhaps so but it's only a matter of time before someone is injured by an ebike/pedelec. If it happens to be illegal what will happen ?

I bought my Haibike 2nd hand fitted with a dongle. Previous owner boasted how he could make his journey into Sheffield along tow path averaging 20 mph. I didn't believe him but on a very quiet midweek early morning session I averaged 18 mph around Lady Bower. My best unpowered is circa10 mph. I removed the dongle.

Having capability to go around off-road routes approaching motor bike speeds (reckon I, d only average 20 mph or so on my AJP, if I were allowed ) should not be what pedelecs are about and will lead to regulations stopping us all.

Looks like it might happen in place mentioned in link.

Was commenting on the article, not offering an argument for dongles.

In your case..

Did you ever manage to hit 30mph? Without pedaling?

Was the bike easily modified using simple instructions available on the internet?

I am sure there are a few home made bikes out there that will do this but 99.9% of them won't, in fact i am confident that in all the bike shops around me there won't be one bike that fits this description.

I feel that people tend to focus on articles like this and assume it's true..

Not meaning to be argumentative but Fake News in my opinion.

Certainly most 250 watt rated pedelecs can't get near to 30 mph unrestricted on motor power alone. The proof is in the S class which originally also had a 250 watt limit. The S class bikes then commonly only reached a little over 20 mph assisted. It took a change in the regulations to permit up to 500 watt rating for them to reach and be geared for the permitted assist limit of 45 kph ( 28 mph).

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Certainly most 250 watt rated pedelecs can't get near to 30 mph unrestricted on motor power alone. The proof is in the S class which originally also had a 250 watt limit. The S class bikes then commonly only reached a little over 20 mph assisted. It took a change in the regulations to permit up to 500 watt rating for them to reach and be geared for the permitted assist limit of 45 kph ( 28 mph).

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The article suggests that electric bikes can be ridden at 30mph without pedalling after a few easy tweaks. How true is that? Electric bikes are interesting and I have many conversations with people about them, some of whome have "heard" that they can be derestricred. Deristricted meaning very much more than it actually is.

I don't think the 30 mph without peddling is the issue. My bike is "certified" 250w.(no doubt it more in short bursts) and is limited to 15.5 mph assist. The dongle for £90 removes that limit. Fits in seconds and with it fitted I could easily keep up (on hills beat) mate on his Velexsolo moped, which he has.to register and insure. Look how many dongles are sold.

Will take one incident where a kid is hurt and even if dongle (or home made kit bike over 250w) is not to blame the whole lot will be stopped. There are already rumblings by Peak District wardens asking for ebikes/pedelecs to be banned.

How can we expect police/wardens to differentiate between legal/illegal. They probably can't and certainly won't. There will simply be signs going up. No Ebikes.

At moment legal pedelecs have the same rights as cycles. That will change if we can't police ourselves.

Articles as in the link only serve to change attitudes against us, even if fake or exaggerated.

There is a revolution going on with the use of Ebikes, I, ve seen monumental increase in their use in Derbyshire recently. I d guess half have been illegal. (Met one with two 500wh batteries and a 500w motor in each hub)

Just look on ebay and see how many legal kits are listed/sold. (Do a search of completed listing , all 500w kits destined for UK)

To be used on private land with owners consent? I don't think so.

 

Just done a quick survey on ebay. Searched on electric bike kit.

In first 10 listings only 1 offered legal 250w kit. One was for 1500w. All others 500w and 1000w. Each seller had a minimum of 33 sold. (not sure of time scale) There were 1500 plus listings. In completed listings I couldn't find any destined for outside UK. These bikes will not be showing up in your bike shop. Neither will dongled bikes. (They affect warranty, so owners remove them when work being carried out) Contrary to popular belief shops can not tell if one has been fitted.

 

This would do 30 mph plus.easy.

 

A 5kw motor ! Being sold in UK to UK on eBay now. Reckon it would do 50 mph. No legal warnings, no get out. No only for competition. Crazy. Blatantly illegal, all out in open on Ebay UK.

It won't last. We will all lose out.

 

Putting that in perspective... Its 20 fold over legal limit.

Edited August 5, 20187 yr by Zlatan

The article suggests that electric bikes can be ridden at 30mph without pedalling after a few easy tweaks. How true is that?

 

Absolutely untrue for pedelecs sold as legal. As Zlatan observes, it's the higher powered kit motors, often DDs, that are capable of high speeds and it's those that will cause the trouble.

 

However, those irresponsible users are not a threat to the rest of us since the pedelec regulations are both EU wide and very widely in force elsewhere in the world. That isn't going to change worldwide because of a few hooligans in any one location like a French island. All that will happen is that the hooligans may get their comeuppance through a crackdown.

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Edited August 5, 20187 yr by flecc

I don't think the 30 mph without peddling is the issue. My bike is "certified" 250w.(no doubt it more in short bursts) and is limited to 15.5 mph assist. The dongle for £90 removes that limit. Fits in seconds and with it fitted I could easily keep up (on hills beat) mate on his Velexsolo moped, which he has.to register and insure. Look how many dongles are sold.

Will take one incident where a kid is hurt and even if dongle (or home made kit bike over 250w) is not to blame the whole lot will be stopped. There are already rumblings by Peak District wardens asking for ebikes/pedelecs to be banned.

How can we expect police/wardens to differentiate between legal/illegal. They probably can't and certainly won't. There will simply be signs going up. No Ebikes.

At moment legal pedelecs have the same rights as cycles. That will change if we can't police ourselves.

Articles as in the link only serve to change attitudes against us, even if fake or exaggerated.

There is a revolution going on with the use of Ebikes, I, ve seen monumental increase in their use in Derbyshire recently. I d guess half have been illegal. (Met one with two 500wh batteries and a 500w motor in each hub)

Just look on ebay and see how many legal kits are listed/sold. (Do a search of completed listing , all 500w kits destined for UK)

To be used on private land with owners consent? I don't think so.

 

Just done a quick survey on ebay. Searched on electric bike kit.

In first 10 listings only 1 offered legal 250w kit. One was for 1500w. All others 500w and 1000w. Each seller had a minimum of 33 sold. (not sure of time scale) There were 1500 plus listings. In completed listings I couldn't find any destined for outside UK. These bikes will not be showing up in your bike shop. Neither will dongled bikes. (They affect warranty, so owners remove them when work being carried out) Contrary to popular belief shops can not tell if one has been fitted.

I notice you say "could" beat your mate. The problem is with the riders not the bikes and most like you wouldn't do it any way.. those that would and do can also be found riding illegal scramble bikes around housing estates, driving cars with no liscence and perhaps riding illegal mopeds stealing phones and worse. Look at the moped situation in london? Is there a case for banning mopeds? My car will do 100mph. When did it last do 100mph? Never has!

If all ebikes were banned they would still do it anyway.

Just saying that articles like this give an unbalanced view and the wrong impression.

I hope you two are right. I love going around Lady Bower and not coming home cream crackered after a 28 mile ride. Its heaven,just ambling around,doing what bike was designed for and what current rules allow. Would be easy to lose this, it's not a right , rather a privilege. Our attitudes towards illegal bikes could jeapordise it all.

Doom and gloom and the sky falling in have been prophesied for a few years now.. used to be a believer because people I respected said it was so...

Anne, 43, a mother of three who often holidays on the island, said:

 

“Cycle paths here are really congested. Some stop to take photos and there are kids who wobble and zigzag because they’re learning to ride, so you need to be alert all the time. And now we’ve got to contend with hot rod e-bikes hurtling along at high speed. It’s really dangerous.”

 

If each cycle was replaced with a car on her local roads, would she be happy then? Sometimes you just can't win.

Hi

Anne, 43, a mother of three who often holidays on the island, said:

 

“Cycle paths here are really congested. Some stop to take photos and there are kids who wobble and zigzag because they’re learning to ride, so you need to be alert all the time. And now we’ve got to contend with hot rod e-bikes hurtling along at high speed. It’s really dangerous.”

 

If each cycle was replaced with a car on her local roads, would she be happy then? Sometimes you just can't win.

On holiday in Majorca there is a designated cycle lane through a 5 mile mostly pedestrianised resort. It is painted bright red and is over a metre wide, but still some tourists and their children (mainly british) just wander in and out of it without thought whereas other tourists (mainly german) dont. I have witnessed many near misses mostly caused by inebriated holidaymakers who seem unable to keep either themselves or their offspring under control and then swear at cyclists telling them to effing slow down.

Unfortunately it's getting a bit that way on the tow path these days, there are more and more idiots chasing Strava segments that regular towpath users are becoming very unsympathetic to the rest of us.

Here's a thought.. Strava segments should be banned on shared paths.

I read the article last night, it came up on my news feed. Z you should be ashamed for promoting such tripe!

 

1. It is a badly written piece of fluff - slow news day fodder

2. An e-bike that operates at 48 km/h throttle only is called a moped and they are illegal on French cycle paths

3. We are in full holiday season, not a nice time to go cycling on the Isle de Ré, not a nice time to go cycling where I live either, the shared paths will be a nightmare until about the 15th.

 

Look at the conclusion which compares traffic deaths to the UK. Is France a tiny little island with crappy narrow, twisty roads dating back to the Romans? No, not everywhere. Are there more drunk drivers on the road in France than in the UK? Quite possibly. Are there more places where you can break the speed limit in France because there is less traffic per km? Certainly yes. France has more deaths because of drunk driving and excessive speed.

 

I conclude with:

 

"In July last year, 23 cyclists were killed". By people riding electric mopeds on cycle paths? No, I don't think so, but but most likely by drunk drivers breaking the speed limit.

 

More and more holiday makers here have pedelecs and it is clear that for many it is their first bike! They also seem to think the road code does not apply to pedelecs and so they are riding the wrong way up streets when they aren't barging through pedestrians on the footpath... Need I say more?

So sorry Kiwi.. I feel really ashamed of myself. [Line removed by admin. Please disagree without personal attacks]

Edited August 6, 20187 yr by HelenJ

So sorry Kiwi.. I feel really ashamed of myself. Actually go feck yourself.

 

Why? Because I was attracted by the headline of a "newspaper" article which I read then wrote of as non information?

 

I analysed the content and rather than thinking "We are all doomed! End of the 250 W pedelec!", like some who shall remane nameless, I concluded that it was probably written by an intern replacing a real journalist for the holidays so lacking it was in fact and useful information...

Strava segments should be banned on shared paths.

 

You can flag segments as dangerous, which then means those segments no longer have a leaderboard.

So sorry Kiwi.. I feel really ashamed of myself. Actually go feck yourself.

What are you AK.. The fake news police? Do you have a loosely glued blond quiff and drawl with an American accent by any chance?

You can flag segments as dangerous, which then means those segments no longer have a leaderboard.

I did start doing that but its tedious and soon got fed up and it wont change much.. As someone commented in another thread, those that do it and get caught can stand the consequences

By the way,

The photo is pretty good!

Why? Because I was attracted by the headline of a "newspaper" article which I read then wrote of as non information?

 

I analysed the content and rather than thinking "We are all doomed! End of the 250 W pedelec!", like some who shall remane nameless, I concluded that it was probably written by an intern replacing a real journalist for the holidays so lacking it was in fact and useful information...

 

I posed the question , the clue was in the question marks in the title.

My only point is we should be careful to safeguard our privileged position, re using pedelecs in Peak District etc etc. That right could easily be removed as it already has in parts of USA.

Yes, Il De Re might be exaggerated, fake, rubbish etc etc but the reality is there are lots of illegal, dongled , high power bikes being used which by rights should be registered , taxed, insured and not on anything other than High ways.

Yes its individuals decision to ride an uninsured moped, motorbike etc etc but folk should realise using them on tracks risks us all loosing that privilege.

In last month I, ve seen perhaps 10 Ebikes going around Lady Bower. Half were illegal as pedelecs.

The article simply raises the profile. Unfortunately, in this case, in a bad way.

And if it makes 1 rider think about using a legal pedelec over what is actually a motorbike around Lady Bower I don't feel ashamed at all. Quite the reverse actually. The folk using, selling and offering advice about illegal bikes are the ones who should be ashamed. (or the ones defending said activity,)

I, ve seen perhaps 10 Ebikes going around Lady Bower. Half were illegal as pedelecs.

 

Evidence that 5/10 were illegal?

Evidence that 5/10 were illegal?

Doesn't matter as they were all probably mates.. I cant believe its anything more that a small percentage overall and not everyone that has a speed up device fitted rides like a moron!

and who will pay to police all of this on and off road because plod dont give a crap atm lawful or not.

 

i know we can send in these guys.

and who will pay to police all of this on and off road because plod dont give a crap atm lawful or not.

 

i know we can send in these guys.

Perhaps we should be more like you! I suspect al your talk is talk and your just a pussy really!