Cytronex Trek reliability

Hi all,

 

I am not a Cytronex user, but I am certainly very interested in them and I keep feeling a rising urge to investigate more fully when (and if!) the cash flow improves.

Thing is, earlier this year there were extensive postings on various folk's experience with the Tongxin motor, during which it was given quite a pasting - including its whole design concept. The Cytronex has now been on the market long enough to get an early indication of whether or not the problems have carried over into these bikes.

As far as I can tell, this hasn't been the case, but perhaps you users out there know otherwise?

If it's not the case then maybe it's time to revisit the Tongxin motor design concept and see why it appears to work reliably now and in this bike, when there has been so much bad press for them previously.

 

Phil

Virtually all the trouble reported here was with controllers Phil, but they seem to have overcome that now. Both the Cytronex and Nano Brompton have controller arrangements specific to them and with no trouble reported from either.

 

There were reports from the USA in particular about the roller drive slipping problems, but this seems to be when they are used in unsuitable and highly geared applications. When the correct rpm version is chosen for the wheel, there doesn't seem to be a problem. Some members report a momentary slippage when accelerating from a standstill, but as the Cytronex is not intended to be used in that way, it's not a problem for that bike. The usage recommendation is for the bike to be pedalled off the mark momentarily, nominally to 5 mph, and then the power switched in.

 

Of course it's still a relatively new motor design so the long term reliability isn't known, but in the fairly undemanding Cytronex application it's unlikely to be leading any tendency to failure.

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That's good to hear. Fundamentally I like the design of the Cytronex and the whole concept of the bike is appealing. The Tongxin motor could virtually have been designed for an application like that. Who does make the controller for the Tongxin? I presume Cytronex don't actually manufacture their own?

 

Phil

I don't know Phil. Tongxin have their own controller design, and it may be that they also produce the variants for different manufacturers as they do for the Nano-Brompton, but Cytronex may have arranged for another company to manufacture it for them.

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I used the Tongxin motor day in day out for a year with no sign of trouble with the roller drive - I didn't ride it gently either so I think it is pretty tough.

 

I now have the Cytronex and can report that it has been 100% reliable - early days I know but in comparison with my previous electric bikes it has been remarkable. The Torq needed lots of tightening of bolts, adjusting to get rid of the fork judder, not to mention water ingress cutting the power. It even went back to the dealer to have an electrical gremlin sorted. Even the well made Agattu needed a new gear hub (not Kalkhoffs fault I know), the chain kept falling off until I oiled the tensioner, the handlbars always needed tightening so not exactly perfect.

 

The key to the Cytronex is that it is a well sorted simple bike with relatively simple electric bits added so should be very reliable - that is what I am hoping anyway and I haven't had to get my spanners out to tighten anything yet.

Cytronex Controller

 

Cytronex do use a Tongxin controller as can be seen in the following slide show Aldby's latest slideshow on Flickr

 

J:) hn

Yes, Mark from Cytronex posted at length on this when the bike was launched. His views on the reliability of the Tongxin controller, in this application, have been proved right!

Thanks for the photo link John. Great pics, useful to see.

Cheers, Phil

We bought the first two Cytronex Treks on the market and I can report that they have been completely reliable over more than 1000 miles.

We bought the first two Cytronex Treks on the market and I can report that they have been completely reliable over more than 1000 miles.

 

It's beginning to look like a few of the 'high end' cycle producers could learn a bit form Cytornex then vis-a-vis build quality, reliability and customer satisfaction. Seems that the potential worries over the Tongxin set up were premature.

I'm beginning to like the sound of these bikes more and more...

 

Phil

It's beginning to look like a few of the 'high end' cycle producers could learn a bit form Cytornex then vis-a-vis build quality, reliability and customer satisfaction. Seems that the potential worries over the Tongxin set up were premature.

I'm beginning to like the sound of these bikes more and more...

 

Phil

Yeah, but what happens if you have to stop in the middle of a hill, if you can´t change down on standstill and you don´t have instant power to start off...aren´t you somewhat sc****d? Pardon my Spanish.

Yeah, but what happens if you have to stop in the middle of a hill, if you can´t change down on standstill and you don´t have instant power to start off...aren´t you somewhat sc****d? Pardon my Spanish.

 

 

Not really. Cytronex covered this on another thread. Tried it a few times, nice low gear, pushing button in at about 2,3,4,5MPH, no problem.

I think the alternative technique on really bad hills is to cycle very slightly downhill and turn back up. I can't envisage I'd ever need to do that. Hills round these parts aren't that serious!

Yeah, but what happens if you have to stop in the middle of a hill, if you can´t change down on standstill.

 

 

I lift the back wheel up slightly, change down gear - pushing the pedal so that it derails and changes down. Done a few times when the lights have caught me out. Cytronex isn't a heavy bike and the motor which is pretty light anyway is on the front wheel. Also the battery is towards the front. Might be a problem for some people don't know.

Just to add my two pennies worth. Mines been A1 since I picked it up. No broken bits, nothing dropping off, no nasty noises and it's done exactly what I was told it would do. Quick email responses from Mark at Cytronex as well.

 

There's has been some reference to hype about some of the comments people have made on the forum re the Cytronex Trek. To be honest I don't think it's been hyped at all - just that it doesn't suit everyones requirements. If mine were different I might easily have gone for a Wisper, an Agattu, or a Mistral. All quality electric bikes.

Yeah, but what happens if you have to stop in the middle of a hill, if you can´t change down on standstill and you don´t have instant power to start off...aren´t you somewhat sc****d? Pardon my Spanish.

As the Cytronex is aimed at a more experience cyclist than many other models then that probably won't be a problem. If I have to stop my Wisper on a steep hill then the motor is next to useless until I get some speed up.

As the Cytronex is aimed at a more experience cyclist than many other models then that probably won't be a problem. If I have to stop my Wisper on a steep hill then the motor is next to useless until I get some speed up.

I agree with the last part. I had a Wisper clone and when the motor plus my effort couldn´t with the hill and started to stutter, that was it. As I´m not too fit, most of the times on steep/long hills I couldn´t pedal the bike (with motor on) up to the speed required at every given moment by the motor. And, evidently, once the motor gave up on me, in no way was I able to haul up the bike by my sole pedalling.

Now with the Panasonic I have to struggle a lot but I reach the end on my own of those hills I couldn´t climb, no matter what with the clone.

As the Cytronex is aimed at a more experience cyclist than many other models then that probably won't be a problem. If I have to stop my Wisper on a steep hill then the motor is next to useless until I get some speed up.

Do you mean that with the Cy you can tackle hills that were impossible with tha W. due to its weight, to not being able the keep up with the speed required by the motor, ...or what?

As the Cytronex is aimed at a more experience cyclist than many other models then that probably won't be a problem. If I have to stop my Wisper on a steep hill then the motor is next to useless until I get some speed up.

 

The Cytronex is aimed at commuters who don't want to have to take a shower when they get to work after struggling up hills. It's certainly not underpowered except perhaps in the sense that the assisted range is about 20 miles. The bikes a hill climber with plenty of torque.

Do you mean that with the Cy you can tackle hills that were impossible with tha W. due to its weight, to not being able the keep up with the speed required by the motor, ...or what?

 

The Nano motor in the Cytronex is slightly less powerful than the Suzhou Bafang Wisper one, so the answer is broadly no, though the Nano has a little more torque. Although the Cytronex bike is lighter, the difference as a proportion of the whole weight of bike and rider isn't enough to make a realistic difference for you.

 

Both bikes require the rider to provide a good helping input on steep hills, and we both know how steep and long those hills are in your area.

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Edited October 18, 200817 yr by flecc

The Nano motor in the Cytronex is slightly less powerful than the Suzhou Bafang Wisper one, so the answer is broadly no, though the Nano has a little more torque. Although the Cytronex bike is lighter, the difference as a proportion of the whole weight of bike and rider isn't enough to make a realistic difference for you.

 

Both bikes require the rider to provide a good helping input on steep hills, and we both know how steep and long those hills are in your area.

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The Wisper though is both a over geared and supplied with a 'high speed' motor, which I guess is actually intended to work in a 22" or 24" wheel (i.e. 235+ rpm). The Cytronex although a 28" inch wheel is supplied with the correctly geared 175 rpm motor and since it is in the front hub has a full, wide range of gears for the hills. The hub is also of lower rolling resistance, which will be of increasing importance on the hills. I haven't ridden the Cytronex, but listening to the experience of others and taking these other considerations into account, I can see how the Cytronex may make a pretty decent hill climber, provided you are an averagely able cyclist.

 

Phil

I believe that for a strong cyclist, the Cytronex would be a lot better on hills than the Wisper and for a weaker cyclist it may be slightly better.

 

There are two key factors: motor gearing, as Phil mentions above, and also lower gears - the Cytronex probably has a bottom gear of around 20" vs 39" on the Wisper - enabling the rider (if willing and able) to do a lot more.

 

These factors would have more effect than any weight difference between the two, and I don't think the rolling resistance would be a factor in hill climbing situations (unless you go above 15mph!).

 

Obviously the benefit of the rider gearing advantage varies according to how much input the rider wants to make. It's a lot of help to a rider who could climb the hill without a motor but just wants to stay a bit cooler, and of no value to someone who wants to be pulled up without pedalling!

Edited October 19, 200817 yr by frank9755

I agree with both Phil and Frank on those differences, but I was replying to Poppy following extensive private correspondence over a long period in which I know of his abilities and terrain. He not only has difficulty on the hills with his Wisper clone, but also with his new BH which uses the Panasonic unit driving through the gears, hence his dissatisfaction and looking elsewhere.

 

Since I do not believe the Cytronex will outperform the Panasonic drive-through-gears unit on his steeper hills, I still think it unsuitable for him.

 

It's also relevant that his hub motor bike isn't actually a clone, though visually similar to the older Wisper 905e, and doesn't use the high geared 905se motor. Importantly as he has said above, he needs power from a standstill, and the Cytronex is definitely unsuitable for that.

 

Here's one of Poppy's routes, the terrain exaggerated but showing it's far from easy territory:

 

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Edited October 19, 200817 yr by flecc

And I agree with that, Flecc - based on what I've read I think you are right to recommend a Panasonic as the best option for Poppy.

 

As I hope was clear from my post, I think a less strong cyclist should not expect a Cytronex to give them as much benefit as stronger cyclists would experience.

And I agree with that, Flecc - based on what I've read I think you are right to recommend a Panasonic as the best option for Poppy.

 

As I hope was clear from my post, I think a less strong cyclist should not expect a Cytronex to give them as much benefit as stronger cyclists would experience.

 

Poppy's problem is a two part one Frank. He needs good steep hill ability, but his fitness level means he also suffers on average hills that are very long where endurance is needed for the moderate rider input required. In other words he needs something like a Panasonic unit that only requires a low level of rider input, but there's no such thing unfortunately.

 

The only alternative I can think of is one of the most powerful eZee models like the Torq 2 or F series, but I'm reluctant to advise that with no importer or service backup in Spain, and even then I'm not confident on the fitness aspect.

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Poppy´s needs, ha ha!

 

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time and have the patience to address my byking problems dealing with my less than adequate technical English. I want that "impossible"- A more helpful Panasonic. But as Ive told Flecc I´m enjoying the one I have much more than the clone. In a few months and being somewhat fitter I´ll try for the Pro C. because I have a gut feeling that it would be more powerful and a better free wheeler. But as I´ll give myself a few months.... We are talking big bucks and I don´t want to make another mistake.....

I´ve got to admit that reading your posts I am ashamed of my fitness. But for a guy that´s pushing 60, smokes a pack, started cycling a year ago after 40 plus years and never done any exercise.....

Regards to you all.