Cycling in Spain.

[JohnCade]

Interesting piece here about how Saville has increased cycling rates in the city by eleven times in a short time by creating a safe cycling infrastructure from scratch. It's been said that cycling countries are mainly cycling countries because they have a tradition and history of utility cycling, and that you can't just bolt cycling on without that recent tradition. But apparently Spain has no recent tradition of utility cycling at all and by creating the infrastructure that's just what they've done.

Segregation – separating bikes by a physical barrier like a raised kerb or fence – is something of a holy grail for campaigners, who argue it makes cycling accessible to people of all ages, allowing them to trundle along at slow speeds in everyday clothes. This is in contrast to the scene in most UK cities, where mainly young, generally male riders speed alongside motor traffic dressed in helmets and luminous high-vis jackets.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/28/seville-cycling-capital-southern-europe-bike-lanes

 

[flecc]

Like so many mainland European cities, Seville has many wide and very wide roads, making the provision of separated lanes relatively easy.

That's simply not possible in many of Britain's older cities, including my home city of London. The currently proposed separated route across parts of London is a good illustration. It employs the very wide Embankment, but the route to the west from there dives in all directions, probably doubling the distance the cyclist should need to ride, yet even some of those roads are far from suitable.

Even in my outer borough of Croydon the current side-of-road cycle routes have such diversions, one near me has a near one mile box route with a climb, just to miss just over 150 metres of dangerous flat route. Guess which the cyclists choose!

There's similar in East London where a very dangerous flyover that has killed some cyclists is now bypassed by a devious lower level route, with the result that cyclists still risk using the flyover instead.

All these result from the many roads that are simply too narrow to divide up with adequate barriers while retaining practical usability by all classes of motor traffic.

Dividing just the bits that can be ends up with the silly impractical hotchpotch that we have with our present marked cycle lanes. Just this week in my borough a complete review of the tram system's tracks has been ordered after a cyclist died after slipping on a metal track while riding alongside them, ending up under a car, another consequence of just not enough road width for cyclists to avoid them.
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[JohnCade]

In the piece he says that some of the new cycleway is not as wide as those in other northern cities but they made it work nevertheless. Seville has many wide roads but it has an old part with narrower roads too. There are many parts of London where the roads are quite wide enough to fit in proper cycling infrastructure, and even in parts of central London it can be done by taking away some car space. If with more difficulty there. It only needs the political will which has of course been completely lacking.

London is a big place and its suburbs would benefit most from proper cycling provision, and that's where most Londoners live of course. When I lived and cycled in north London there was plenty of room on many of the arterial roads for cycling provision. But the space was used for parking and wide pavements - most without any pedestrian traffic instead. While the cycleways were painted lines on pavements where you had to bump up and down curbs to cross the vehicle entrances to offices and factories. Hardly surprising that nobody used them.

 

[flecc]

North London is certainly a bit better in parts, but just look at the South Circular, widely regarded as a joke. It's not even fit for motor traffic.

I agree there are bits that can have separated lanes, but as I posted, that is no solution since it's the same problem we have with the current cycle lanes.

There is now the will to institute the route I mentioned, but with all the faults I also mentioned. Inevitably, as at present, cyclists faced with the much longer "correct" segregated route will frequently still go the short way over that half.

Despite some current objections, this new route seems likely to go ahead and we'll then see how it's used in practice.
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[Deleted member 4366]

It's not impossible. Somebody just has to do it, and they will eventually. You only have to ban motor vehicles.

 

[flecc]

It's not impossible. Somebody just has to do it, and they will eventually. You only have to ban motor vehicles.

Unfortunately an over 400 square mile city like London couldn't operate with them. It would die in the same way that the ancient South American city economies did through transport problems.

London motorized road travel is on a knife edge, the slightest problem often results in many hours of chaos and crazy journey times. It's far worse now than in my car commuting days in the 1980s, and even back then I occasionally suffered such as two and half hours to cover 12 miles. What caused that example? It was a single midweek football match that was popular enough to cause a big increase over the usual crowd going there.

That's just how silly a problem can be to cause chaos. What useful segregated cycle routes covering all the main routes would do doesn't bear thinking about.
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[mike killay]

I was at Excel the other weekend and I was surprised that the road from the City Airport to Excel which appears to be new does not have any pedestrian or cycle provision.
It is this lack of perception by planners over the years that has caused the problem.
London is not unique, the Welsh Government spent a lot of money straightening the Crimea Pass but forgot about bikes.
The opening of the improvements roughly coincided with UK wins at Tour de France etc.
Result, the following summer, this new but narrow 2 lane highway was clogged by bikes slowly climbing the pass at about 5mph.

 

[flecc]

I was at Excel the other weekend and I was surprised that the road from the City Airport to Excel which appears to be new does not have any pedestrian or cycle provision.

I'm not surprised. The huge increase in London cycling has been almost entirely in commuting to and from work, so almost all the cycling provision emphasis has been on the appropriate radial routes. The latest segregated route proposal and those already partially completed are all of that nature. Internal links will probably be the last dealt with.

Most of the City Airport's flyers are no doubt people who neither cycle or even walk very much. Using taxis is much more likely.
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