Crank drive performance
- Thread starter Streethawk
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If you worked for Bosch and your motor was going into an important race and you had access to the Bosch programming equipment, what would you do? Would you wait until the Cheapo Chinese motor had won the race, or would you try and give your guys a chance of winning?
It could be that the Bosch can only go as high as 20 amps before it gets reliability problems, while as the Bafang can go safely to 22 amps. Maybe the Bafang guys trusted the reliability of their motor more than the Bosch guys.
There's lots of maybes but they're all irrelevant. The only important thing is that the Bafang won the 24 hour race. There wouldn't be any point to the race if both motors made the same power in the same way. They're different and the better one won.
so you say the bafang max is better than the Bosch CX d8veh?
based on one race which the Bafang Max was programmed.And you are guessing wildly I belive it was the 48v version Bafang max drive.For sure the Bosch CX is alot stronger and faster than the orginal Bafang Max drive and Lightyears better technological motor.
based on one race which the Bafang Max was programmed.And you are guessing wildly I belive it was the 48v version Bafang max drive.For sure the Bosch CX is alot stronger and faster than the orginal Bafang Max drive and Lightyears better technological motor.
A motor is some copper wound around a core, a bunch of magnets, a few bearings and gears in a metal box. The controller is where things get interesting...
I think that the max has more potential. I am not surprised it won that race and we certainly need more races to advance the technology.
I think that the max has more potential. I am not surprised it won that race and we certainly need more races to advance the technology.
The race needs to be done with the same driver,and it needs to be done with the bike as it is sold in the store to give the right picture, a hot rodded competition with diffrent drivers doesnt tell the normal buyer that want an legal bike much.If you want potential than just buy a bbs02 250w and change the battery and controller to 48volt 25a.
Nominative 250 W motor. Everyone gets the same battery. The winner goes the most distance. Next race everyone changes bikes, if the same rider can win on several different bikes then we need to factor in rider performance. Riders cannot be card holding members of road racing clubs? Special prise for fastest bike. Special prize for team with the oldest riders (riders have never held a club card). Lightest bike award.
... your category goes here
Unless the Bafang Max is on a reputable brand mountain bike I'm not interested, not matter how good it is.
I am actually considering two new eBikes, a full suspension eMTB for fun weekend riding and a Chinese powered £1000-£1500 bike for commuting. It needs to do 10 miles each way on max assist and prefer a standard pedal sensor to a torque sensor for this.
For the eMTB I require a modern frame geometry, fox or rockshox suspension, a dropper post and at least 150mm of suspension travel. It would need a 500wh battery.
I am actually considering two new eBikes, a full suspension eMTB for fun weekend riding and a Chinese powered £1000-£1500 bike for commuting. It needs to do 10 miles each way on max assist and prefer a standard pedal sensor to a torque sensor for this.
For the eMTB I require a modern frame geometry, fox or rockshox suspension, a dropper post and at least 150mm of suspension travel. It would need a 500wh battery.
A closer analogy might be buying a Bosch is like buying Apple iPhone or iPad. Within the walled garden they inhabit, they cannot be bettered, and they do their best to stop you getting outside. Premium product at premium price. Just like in the old days no-one got fired for buying IBM, the same is true for Apple...
Yes, that saying originated in the 1960s and 70s when IBM dominated firstly the mainframe market for business-critical applications, and latterly the embrio PC market. But even IBM eventually woke up to realise that other far more dynamic businesses were doing those things better than they did, and IBM sold off and withdrew from those markets.
You're the one making that comparison here Danidl... So if we were to complete your analogy, maybe Bosch and Apple, like IBM, have also had their day? (watch the hate voting ensue!).
It's easy to be blinded by brand loyalty... BMW and Mercedes also aren't the strong brands they once were... they are today far from the solid, quality, reliable marques many once believed them to be, yet people still aspire to owning them.
Today, a lot of Bosch product (domestic, professional) is made in the same Chinese, Maltese, Polish factories as lesser brands where once they were made in Germany by Germans - when perhaps it was worth paying a premium for that. The fact that your overpriced premium iPhone is made in the same Chinese factory that Tesco have their cheapy own-brand tellies made? Who is kidding who about "premium" brands?
That Bosch stage an e-bike race at the Nurburgring which they fully expect to win hands-down, and then get slaughtered by some upstart Chinese Company called Bafang, says what about Bosch paying attention to how the market has - in fact - moved on whilst they've been asleep?
It says a lot about blinded loyalty when someone wants to buy an e-bike solely because it has a premium "brand" on it rather than what might actually be the better ebike.
The race analogy is a farce.
Like motor racing, Williams etc.. the ebikes in a well publicised race promoting brands, will be customised and tweaked to an extent where they bear no resemblance to the bike Joe public will purchase.
Too much money and prestige at stake.
Like motor racing, Williams etc.. the ebikes in a well publicised race promoting brands, will be customised and tweaked to an extent where they bear no resemblance to the bike Joe public will purchase.
Too much money and prestige at stake.
In this context it's Bosch who are the upstart, Suzhou Bafang are a long way into their second decade in this market, while Bosch joined much more recently.
And I doubt Bosch matched Bafang's 1.2 million motors and systems in the last full year figures, larger than the entire European market.
.
Yes, quite so. But we're talking about Brand perceptions in the Western World. Throughout Europe, people know and are comfortable with Bosch or Yamaha's crank drive... whereas Bafang's MaxDrive is/was to many ordinary folk something of a lesser known and unproven entity.
Indeed, a MaxDrive didn't even figure in the OP's reckoning until d8veh mentioned it. And it still doesn't figure on the OP's list of acceptable choices "no matter how good it is" purely because - I'm guessing here - the Germans don't have it fitted to any of their "premium branded" machines.
No, purely because it's not fitted to any good mountain bikes. That's not to say I wouldn't consider it. However until someone who knows how to design a decent quality nice to ride mountain bike uses it in their designs it will remain a niche product. Trek, Giant, Specialized, Haibike, Focus, Commencal, Lapierre, Santa Cruz, Yeti, etc etc. Even if a mid-market player like Boardman or Voodoo don't offer it.
That Norwegian website linked to has just a horrific imitation of a full suspension mountain bike. Those things do not work in proper mountain biking. See below as an example :
That Norwegian website linked to has just a horrific imitation of a full suspension mountain bike. Those things do not work in proper mountain biking. See below as an example :
the standard design for a full-sus MaxDrive, available from more or less any e-bike factory in China is as follows:
Frame: hydroformed alloy suspension frame, TIG welding, with rear Air shock, KS A5-RE
You can order Rockshox if you like, prices still higher than UK but you get it in matching colour.
Fork: 27.5" Air Suspension fork, tapered steerer, threadless stem, APRO X-FUSION
Handlebar: alloy low-rised handlebar, 31.8mmTP22.2x680mm, alloy threadless
Brakes: Shimano HDB or Tektro HDB
Crank Set: 44Tx170mm, steel black chairing, alloy black crank
Gear Set: SHIMANO DEORE 9 speeds, KSLM590RA-9 / AFDM310M6C / KRDM592SGS / KCSHG509134
Exactly, it'd be junk in one ride. Fine for pottering around town, but that's no mountain bike.
the weak point is only the unproven Appro X-Fusion. The headset is tapered, you can swap out the handlebars, front wheel and fork in an hour or less.
The rest won't break, not the KS A5 RE.
The rest won't break, not the KS A5 RE.
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