Conhismotor controller red/yellow electric lock wire.

[eHomer]

I've just been trying to connect my new Conhismotor controller to my 750w 36v ebike.

I upgraded my other bike to a BMS sinewave controller successfully a few weeks back, but I can't get the motor to spin on this one.

My battery powers up the lcd display ok with no errors, but neither the throttle nor the pedal sensor spin the motor.

There was no wiring diagram with it, and the only ones I can find on the Internet show the older model, previous to the "new" lcd display version. Most of the connections are similar, and I've tried a few variations.

One of the flying leads is yellow and red, and the diagram shows it as the "electric lock" which normally goes to the handlebar key lock on the twist grip, which I don't have.

Would I be right in assuming that it's just a straight switched connection ? I've tried that, and also leaving it open circuit, but it does not seem to make any difference, the lcd panel still powers up ok, and the motor won't turn.

I was wondering if there was anything more clever about it, maybe it setting a certain resistance across the wires when switched on ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's strange, I thought red and yellow have to be connected for the panel to come on, but maybe that's on a separate supply. Anyway, the red and yellow have to be joined. Next, disconnect your brakes to eliminate them. Then check every connector for colour match side to side. Often the throttle or PAS don't match.

I'm not sure what the key-switch does, but I did notice that everything still operates when you switch off the display, so be careful.

The yellow and black on the display cable is for lights (battery voltage), the white are the speed limit, and the red and black are battery voltage for any accessory. That's it.

Always, the first thing to ckeck when a bike won't work is the 5v on the throttle or PAS wires.

Level zero (no bars) doesn't give any power.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I just had another thought. You need to set the voltage in the display. Press and hold S+ and S- buttons. The power button scrolls through the parameters.
PO1 is wheel size
P02 is the number of magnets in your motor for speed interpretation
PO3 is Backlight
P04 is KM/M
P05 is Voltage
P06 is sleep time for the display (set it to zero)
P07 is max speed
P08 is where it gets its speed signal from for the display.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks Dave, that's got me quite a bit further.

I've attached the nearest Conhis diagram, now modified to show my wiring exactly. (they don't seem to show one for it on their website).



I've now been through the controller settings, and set them thus:

PO1 26 (is that wheel diam in inches ?)
PO2 how many should I put in there ? it's a 1000w 48v direct drive hall motor.
PO3 3
PO4 mph
PO5 36
PO6 0
PO7 30
PO8 2 (thats when it started to show speed when the wheel is turned by hand)

As per my diagram, I've shorted the red and yellow.
I don't think I have to short the brake cable connection ?

I get just under 5v across all the red/blacks on the pedelec sensor and throttle connections.

Still no joy though, no turning from the wheel. The bike was working ok immediately before the installation, using the original controller.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The P02 number is only for the correct speed display. The controller counts the pulses from a hall sensoe and then divides it by the number of magnets in the motor to get the RPM etc., so change the P02 until you get the correct speed displayed.

You're the second one to get this problem with this controller. The other guy sent his to me to test. I put it on my bike with the same GNG motor as his, and it worked straight away. I sent it back, and he hasn't got it to work yet.

It must be something simple. Geoff9 has the 250w version on his spare bike. That also worked first time when I connected it up. all the wires and connections are the same as the bigger ones.

One thing to try: Disconnect the throttle and jump the red and green wires to see if the motor kicks into life. Be careful, it'll give instant full throttle.

BTW I said disconnect the brakes, not short them.

 

[eHomer]

I've gradually upped the PO2 setting to about 20 now, and it's reading about 5mph when I spin the wheel by hand, so I guess I'm close.

I'll try the throttle shorting and yes, I did just leave the brake connection unconnected, (I was just clutching at straws there !)

Interesting what you say about it working on one bike and not another, with all other things seeming to be equal.

I know from past experience that if just one hall sensor is disconnected it won't spin, so I've checked those carefully too. That was a very straightforward changeover from the original controller to this one. Even the same plugs just fitted. Three bullets for the main power, and a 6 way block with the 5 connections for the hall sensors, with the same colours lining up as was.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi there are 46 magnets in 1,000 watt direct drive motor SO enter 46 in P2

The rest off the programs are OK

Hope that Helps

 

[eHomer]

Thank you Frank, much appreciated.

That will save a great deal of experimentation !

I've now emailed Conhismotor to ask if they have any docs or diagrams, as none came with the parts.

Still no joy yet with getting it to spin the motor.

I've even tried swapping the old controller back in to see if something else had gone amiss, but no, it still works fine on that...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Did you disconnect the throttle and short the red and green wires?

I have all the documentation from Conhismotor. There's nothing there that will help you. You already have it all unless they've come up with something new in the last few months.

 

[eHomer]

Yes Dave I did try shorting the red and green, and even tried another spare thumb throttle. It even shows up on the display whenever it is connected or not. There's a row of small icons which are presumably fault indicators. When it's properly connected, it goes out, and the moment any of it's wires are disconnected, it comes on.

Does your documentation show the wiring for my LCD panel ? I could find nothing on their website that showed the new 5 way connector.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The documentation just shows real-life photos of your wiring diagram. There's a separate pdf with an explanation of the buttons on the LCD and the P0 numbers like I gave you. there's no detail about any of them.

 

[eHomer]

Ok, thanks Dave.

Still not running, so I've been investigating further.

I very carefully opened the new controller and had a look inside. I must say, the workmanship is excellent, very nice and neat soldering, and a very pro looking board, much better than the original controller that came with the motor. (from a different supplier).

I couldn't spot any dodgy connections or soldering from a visual inspection, so I tapped out the individual connection wires from flying leads back to the board soldering points. All were fine.

I then compared the way the hall effect and main motor wires were labelled up on the two different boards, and wonder if I've discovered the problem, or if it's a red herring. It could explain Dave's discovery where controllers worked on one motor but not another. ( maybe ! )...


What I found was that the naming convention was different, the old board phases were marked W,V and U, and the new board has them as A,B and C.

When I then checked the colours, on the new board the hall sensor colours were the same, eg sensor wire C was green and motor wire C was green etc., but on the old controller sensor wire W was yellow and motor wire W was blue etc..

Difficult to explain, so here it is as a table:

Old Controller
hall sensor connections----motor power connections

Black (ground)
Yellow---------W---------W Blue
Green ---------V----------V Yellow
Blue-----------U----------U Green
Red (H+)

New controller
hall sensor connections-----motor power connections

Black (H-)
Green----------SC--------C Green
Blue-----------SB---------B Blue
Yellow---------SA---------A Yellow
Red (H+)


So in the new controller, the thick motor leads are the same colour as the thin sensor leads for each of their marking codes (A,B,C)

whereas in the old controller, the thick motor leads were all different colours to the thin sensor leads for each of their marking codes (W,V,U).

So, is it possible that different manufacturers of hall motors and controllers wire the sensors differently ?

I'm thinking that my "old" motor is wired differently to what the new controller was expecting.

If I try swapping the phase leads in the connectors, and gently trying the throttle, could that blow anything ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

You won't blow anything if you're gentle on the throttle. If you have the wrong combination, it's like holding your motor stalled, so wide throttle will blow something for sure.

Different controllers have different sequences, so it's worth going through them all to see if that's the problem. I'd start with the sequence to match the other controller, but bear in mind that some controllers have automatic hall/phase sequence detection. I guess this one doesn't. You can use the table below to get to the result more quickly.

Here's the link:
Nanjing Lishui Electronics Research Institute Co., Ltd. www.lsdzs.com

 

[eHomer]

Thanks for the link to the phase table Dave.

I went through that and then tried every other possible combination, but still not a peep out of the motor on pedal assist or throttle, and yet it still works on both when I tried the old controller again.

I've run out of ideas now. It looks as though I'll have to put the old controller back in and sell this one on ebay as "untested" and not guaranteed to work.

It's a shame because in all other respects it works perfectly and has a really nice display,

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's very strange. There must be a reason. I'm out of ideas too. When Iain sent his to me, I just wired it up on my GNG, and it worked. He has the same motor, but couldn't get a peep out of it. don't give up yet. I'll ask on ES if anybody has any ideas. It must be something simple.

 

[eHomer]

Thanks Dave, I'll hang on then.

Conhismotor have now kindly sent me two PDF files that sound like the ones you mentioned, a series of connections photos and instructions for the display.

I did notice one thing that may be worth mentioning, the instructions for the display list the blue wire as "electric lock", but as you can see from the photo it is left unconnected.

I understood the electric lock feature to just be a simple switch across the red and yellow on the controller.

There's no chance that something needs to be connected to that blue wire ?

Lastly, the motor is my 48v 1000w that was being used on my modified 48v controller from my 36v lithium battery. My understanding of motors is that it will work as a 750w motor when used at 36v. Is there a chance that this 36v controller is sensing the windings or something ?

There's no fault icons appearing on the display for the motor. even when I disconnect it, but the moment I disconnect any of the throttle connections, the throttle error indicator comes on.

 

[eHomer]

More tests today,

I found something on the web about measuring the voltage from the hall sensors with the controller switched on.

They appear to be fine, you turn the wheel slowly backwards and each phase wire alternates between zero and 5 volts compared to the negative phase wire.

I tried all the combinations of connecting the three main motor wires again, there seems to be six possible combinations, but none worked.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The blue wire sends the 36v back to the controller, which is then cut down to 12v for the FETs and 5v for everything else, so if you have 5v on the throttle, it's OK.

When you run a 48v motor with 36v, it has a lower top speed. There's nothing that can upset the controller like that.

 

[eHomer]

More test results... (if nothing else, this experience is at least giving me a greater understanding of brushless motors !)

The blue wire on my controller isn't connected to anything, but it does have full battery voltage on it, 41.4 volts.

I am getting 5 volts on my throttle control red.

I thought of something else, I tested the voltage on each of the three main motor wires, green, blue, and yellow, while I lightly blipped the throttle, there was no change on any of them, 0 volts. I tried it again with the wheel rotated to different positions, still no volts on any, even as a blip.

Would I be right in thinking that the controller should pulse some volts down at least one of the connections, even if the phasing is maybe wrong ?

If so, any thoughts on what else could stop the controller sending electric pulses to the main motor phase windings ?

 

[eHomer]

After typing that in I realised I could test for myself what the measurement should be.

I reconnected the original controller and tested the voltage on the three main motor wires on that.

Each one gave about 10 volts with a slight blip on the throttle, with the wheel in various positions, presumably when each respective hall sensor signaled back, when it was in the right rotational position.

So, to sum things up so far, all other things assumed equal, the new Conhismotor controller is not sending any voltage to the main motor wires, whereas my original controller is pulsing the voltage on them.

So.... either the new Controller is still needing something in it's menu setup, or the blue wire needs to be connected to something, or it's Sod's law and I've managed to get a faulty controller ?