Compact, short range, quality commuter bike?

[mnemonix]

Hi folks!

As thread title, here's some more info:
65kg rider - I'm lightish and fit but not really looking to get fitter by cycling.
Foldable or compact enough for trains - maybe overground if not tube, what's acceptable here?
10 mile max round trip daily - short range, lighter battery?
Every day, all weather London commuting - reliabilty and robustness required.
15 mph without peddling - (I might be tired) implies a hub drive & throttle?
Hub gears - for low maintenance and chain faff, is this the case?
20" wheels - better ride and more stable than 16" Bromptons etc.
Up to £2K budget - I don't want to waste money unnecessarily but will pay for quality and the best solution

I have researched considerably and made a spreadsheet of over 16 compact and foldable bikes but the Wisper 806 was almost the only bike that seemed to fulfil all the criteria above, however I may be wrong in my assumptions or have missed something, so feedback on this would be appreciated. I don't want to miss out on the best bike because I wrote off derailleurs or crank drives for no good reason.

Other bikes I like the look of but don't necessarily fit the above criteria include:
Sahel Compact - quality looking bike, not foldable nor hub drive though.
BH Emotion Neo Volt Sport - interesting looking but expensive, derailleur, no mudgards or rack?
Raleigh Stow-e-way - well known name, not a commonly found electric bike it seems?
Kudos Secret - cheap and cheerful, derailleur, is it really as good as a £2K bike?
Dahon Ikon - good name, ready made by the manufacturer, derailleur... can I better it with a kit?
Moustache bikes in general - well they just look cool to me.

A last thought, I'm reasonably handy with mechanics + electronics, and could consider a kit/self build option, but don't have the time for this to turn into a lengthy project since I need to use it asap...

Thanks!

 

[RobF]

The Wisper meets your spec and the company enjoys a good name on here for making reliable bikes and providing good customer service.

One snag is that none of the 20" folders are very compact when folded.

The package is heavy, 22kg or so, and unwieldy with bits sticking out all over the place.

I wouldn't want to lift one on and off a train every day.

A Brompton is a much better proposition and is absolutely in its element on a 10 mile London commute.

However, the folded package, while very neat, is still quite heavy - the couple of extra kilos for the motor makes a lot of difference.

My Brompton Nano has a 10ah battery in the Brommie bag, which is another lump to carry.

Member Jerry Simon on here has loads of experience of light, shorter range conversions so may be able to assist you.

A Nano with the smaller battery should do your distance.

http://www.nanoelectricbikes.co.uk/

 

[trex]

this one is made for getting around in London and in trains:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?gallego

 

[mnemonix]

Thanks Rob, the Nano was on my list and only discarded because of the 16 " wheels, but it was still nagging away at me that in fact it was probably the ideal solution!

Anywhere in (West preferably) London I can test ride a Brompton/Nano? I'll be following up my research with a few test rides if I can before buying anything.

Trex, I'd seen the Gallego too and it looks amazing for the price, but figured if I was resigned to little wheels then the quality, reliability and even resale value of the Brompton made it the obvious choice if I could afford it.

 

[trex]

The resale value of the Brompton is good but not if it's electrified.
purpose built e-folders are very much better than the conversions. Also, they are usually cheaper to buy.
However, most of the 20" e-folders cannot be easily wheeled about in corridors or hauled up and down stairs, their wheels are not parallel to be dragged and the freewheel allows only one way movement.
Conversion: the Brompton folds to just 585mm by 545mm by 270mm. So compact in fact that there is no free space inside this volume to store a battery. The consequence of that is you have to carry your battery separately or half fold the bike.
Reliability: don't think that purpose built e-folders are less reliable than conversions. The bike is as reliable as its least reliable components. On e-folders, that's not the motor or battery, it's the wiring. It can get pulled, tangled and break with folding and unfolding, with dragging in and out of cars. Here, purpose-built e-folders beat any conversion. The easier you can fold and drag the bike about, the less chance for some wire to break and the more reliable it will be. On this, the Gallego has no parallel. Two more considerations: gears and tyres. More specifically hub gears and puncture proof tyres. You do not want the chain to come off on a folder, ever, so hub gear is a sound investment. E-folders have rear rack battery or in-frame battery for compactness. Go for in-frame batteries, they are better for weight distribution, rain proof and theft prevention. Lastly, purpose-built folders usually have better suspension - such as the Woosh Zephyr-CDN.

 

[LEBC Tom]

Hi folks!

As thread title, here's some more info:
65kg rider - I'm lightish and fit but not really looking to get fitter by cycling.
Foldable or compact enough for trains - maybe overground if not tube, what's acceptable here?
10 mile max round trip daily - short range, lighter battery?
Every day, all weather London commuting - reliabilty and robustness required.
15 mph without peddling - (I might be tired) implies a hub drive & throttle?
Hub gears - for low maintenance and chain faff, is this the case?
20" wheels - better ride and more stable than 16" Bromptons etc.
Up to £2K budget - I don't want to waste money unnecessarily but will pay for quality and the best solution

I have researched considerably and made a spreadsheet of over 16 compact and foldable bikes but the Wisper 806 was almost the only bike that seemed to fulfil all the criteria above, however I may be wrong in my assumptions or have missed something, so feedback on this would be appreciated. I don't want to miss out on the best bike because I wrote off derailleurs or crank drives for no good reason.

Other bikes I like the look of but don't necessarily fit the above criteria include:
Sahel Compact - quality looking bike, not foldable nor hub drive though.
BH Emotion Neo Volt Sport - interesting looking but expensive, derailleur, no mudgards or rack?
Raleigh Stow-e-way - well known name, not a commonly found electric bike it seems?
Kudos Secret - cheap and cheerful, derailleur, is it really as good as a £2K bike?
Dahon Ikon - good name, ready made by the manufacturer, derailleur... can I better it with a kit?
Moustache bikes in general - well they just look cool to me.

A last thought, I'm reasonably handy with mechanics + electronics, and could consider a kit/self build option, but don't have the time for this to turn into a lengthy project since I need to use it asap...

Thanks!

Hi Mnemoix,

You're more then welcome to borrow a secret to try the Journey for a couple of days, just give me a call 07841 412 199, my shop is based in Hampton Wick, near Kingston,

Regards

Tom

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Might be worth checking out A2B Kuo. This is available with mudguards, rack etc. It is the nearest ready built e-folder which is most like a traditional folding bike in my opinion. http://www.wearea2b.com/uk/collection/kuo

Note: there is a new version coming out soon with larger capacity battery. The battery is tiny in size compared to the other bikes.

 

[RobF]

Hi Mnemoix,

You're more then welcome to borrow a secret to try the Journey for a couple of days, just give me a call 07841 412 199, my shop is based in Hampton Wick, near Kingston,

Regards

Tom

The OP's asking about test rides, so that's a decent offer.

Nowhere to test a Brompton Nano in west London as far as I know.

The 16" wheels are not ideal for comfort, but five miles each way shouldn't be a problem.

The Brommie really is made for London commuting, there is nothing so agile or that accelerates so well from the many stops - even better with a motor.

Another consideration is service, several Brommie dealers in central London, and if you break down if the first cyclist who passes isn't on a Brompton, the second one will be.

Brommies are pretty much bombproof, people in London commute thousands of miles a year on them.

I'm not sure a £750 Chinese bike could do that.

Of course, all the above refers to unassisted Bromptons, but the electrics on a Nano are simple and straightforward, so there's no reason you shouldn't enjoy the same benefits.

Don't rule out other conversions, I think there are a couple with 5ah batteries, which would be enough for your commute.

 

[trex]

cwah rode two of his Bromptons to death.
it depends of course on how well you look after your bike.
The OP wants to do 10 miles a day, 3,000 miles a year. A new Brompton costs about £750, a year later with 3,000 miles under its tyres, its resale value would be around £250.
The conversion kit costs about £1000.
Depreciation on the electrics after 3,000 miles is about £700.

It will be cheaper to buy a Gallego for £669.

 

[RobF]

A Gallego would be cheaper, although the OP mentions being prepared to 'pay for quality and the best solution',

There have been a few threads on here recently about faults on Woosh bikes.

Mostly niggly stuff, but I get the impression the OP would rather pay a few quid more to avoid such things.

It's the known vs the unknown.

A Brompton, properly converted, will handle the job well.

A Gallego might also, but experience with other cheaper ebikes suggests there will be some snags along the way.

 

[mnemonix]

RobF, there is a 5Ah option for the Nano 2 now which obviously appeals for reasons of weight.

Thanks Tom, I was definitely going to pay you a visit at the shop sometime soon anyway so will contact you in due course.

Trex, I can definitely see the appeal of the Gallego and if I can ride it to compare with a Brompton I might consider it, though it appears not to have hub gears which you also agreed were advisable for a folder?

 

[trex]

@ RobF: re. niggling problems: Woosh are upgrading the cranks in their CD bikes to Neco brands. The Zephyr-B has Neco 52T crankset and VP pedals. the Gallego is has VP crankset and pedals.

@mnemonix:
the Gallego has Shimano Nexus-3 hub gear and Shimano Nexus Inter-3 rollerbrakes at the rear, Tektro brakes at the front. It's better equiped than any other Chinese e-folder on the market, including the Woosh Zephyr-CDN. Against the CDN, the Gallego has the smallest rear cog for Nexus-3, to lower the cadence when you cycle assisted and the roller brakes on the Gallego have cooling fins.

 

[RobF]

RobF, there is a 5Ah option for the Nano 2 now which obviously appeals for reasons of weight.

The Nano is well thought out, the controller, battery, and motor are all at the front, so no worries with folding cables.

The other conversion you could consider is the Sparticle.

The battery is on the seat tube, which is not so neat as the Nano, but a folded Sparticle will be easier to lump on and off a train, not least because there's only one package to carry.

http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/shop/electric-bikes-trikes/sparticle/brompton-sparticle/prod_624.html

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi folks!

As thread title, here's some more info:
65kg rider - I'm lightish and fit but not really looking to get fitter by cycling.
Foldable or compact enough for trains - maybe overground if not tube, what's acceptable here?
10 mile max round trip daily - short range, lighter battery?
Every day, all weather London commuting - reliabilty and robustness required.
15 mph without peddling - (I might be tired) implies a hub drive & throttle?
Hub gears - for low maintenance and chain faff, is this the case?
20" wheels - better ride and more stable than 16" Bromptons etc.
Up to £2K budget - I don't want to waste money unnecessarily but will pay for quality and the best solution

I have researched considerably and made a spreadsheet of over 16 compact and foldable bikes but the Wisper 806 was almost the only bike that seemed to fulfil all the criteria above, however I may be wrong in my assumptions or have missed something, so feedback on this would be appreciated. I don't want to miss out on the best bike because I wrote off derailleurs or crank drives for no good reason.

Other bikes I like the look of but don't necessarily fit the above criteria include:
Sahel Compact - quality looking bike, not foldable nor hub drive though.
BH Emotion Neo Volt Sport - interesting looking but expensive, derailleur, no mudgards or rack?
Raleigh Stow-e-way - well known name, not a commonly found electric bike it seems?
Kudos Secret - cheap and cheerful, derailleur, is it really as good as a £2K bike?
Dahon Ikon - good name, ready made by the manufacturer, derailleur... can I better it with a kit?
Moustache bikes in general - well they just look cool to me.

A last thought, I'm reasonably handy with mechanics + electronics, and could consider a kit/self build option, but don't have the time for this to turn into a lengthy project since I need to use it asap...

Thanks!

The eZee Street is one to add to your list http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-street-mk2.html

 

[patpatbut]

I have my brompton converted as well and I also have a wisper 805fe (now sold)so I can comment the different

My ebrompton is easier to balance than wisper not sure why though ( probably due to the geometry)

I am on and off the train/car with my bike I found brompton is a lot easier. As the weight of the of the ebrompton can be splitted into battery and the bike which can be carried by both hand evenly. Carrying 806fe on the train folded is killing me simply because the fold mechanism is not neat.

Still 805fe is great ebike as it is very reliable and never fails me once.

At the end, I still recommend brompton conversion.

Pat

 

[stevew]

Don't think you would be able to tell the difference between 16 & 20 inch wheels blindfolded.
I have ridden both for quite long rides and actually find the 16 better but that because the bike that they were on was a better bike than the 20" one
The quality of the whole bike is far more important than the wheel size.

 

[JamesW]

There was a post on here a the last fortnight about converted Mezzo folding bikes. As a Mezzo owner, I would say check out the conversion if possible, if it has been done well you should find it kicks Brompton all the way home. It is a much better bike. It's like comparing windows and Linux the mezzo is better designed but has less market share so you won't find as many people raving because they just haven't had the pleasure!

Get one of those mezzos or get someone to convert one of those for you.

(I test rode a Brompton before I purchased my mezzo back in 07 and Brompton haven't improved much since, still too fiddly and wobbly if you pick one up to climb stairs without folding it!)

James

 

[stevew]

Must beg to differ, rode and folded both, bought a B with my own money !! Brompton is million times better. Why do you think they have the market to them selves ? Products only survive because they do the job they are purchased for better than the competition.

 

[Cyclezee]

I wondered how long it would take before Brompton fan stepped in on this.

A Brompton debate probably deserves a thread of it's own

 

[JamesW]

The Brompton debate is like the I-phone debate - do you want one like everyone else just because it's cool or do you want something that is better for your purposes at the same price/cheaper!

Brompton is fine until you want to carry stuff, then you either have a bag slung off your back of the handlebars, neither of which makes for a stable bike as the centre of gravity has moved away from the designed area, this is why Mezzo is better!

(And now I'll stop annoying Steve!)