Comfort Bar Grips

[Ian]

I fitted these grips to my Torq this morning, the improvement in comfort is quite amazing. The light grey areas are very soft rubber and really spread the load accross the hands, £6.99 well spent. I also did a variation of Fleccs throttle mod, necessary as the new grips won't fit the twistgrip sleeve, in itself a worthwhile mod making precise control easier and reducing fatigue, just like the man said.
I also weakened the throttle return spring and added a plastic block to the anticlockwise stop to eliminate the several degrees of movement before anything happens.

 

[flecc]

Very practical Ian, and a good solution for that well known torq discomfort on today's rotten road surfaces. And they look good too.
.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

well found Ian, these look and sound excellent, the road seems to find its way through my gloves after about an hour.

 

[coops]

nice one!

Yes, a very handy find and a very neat-looking throttle mod they do look just the job; good value too I think this is something I'll try to do too as I'm sure the improvement is significant, though I'm not quite up to doing the throttle mod just yet!

 

[Ian]

I'm not quite up to doing the throttle mod just yet!

Unfortunately Stuart, those grips cannot be fitted to the standard throttle as they have a rigid core that will not go over the 30mm dia throttle sleeve. The mod is quite easy to do with Fleccs step-by-step guide, and is reversable if done properly. Having ridden my modified bike I can say that it now has a precision of control that can only be appreciated by trying it, and it's worth doing the mod even with standard grips.

Since my last post I've replaced the Kenda tractor tyres with Marathon Plus's, I've spent the morning experimenting and decided that 65 psi front and 75 rear gives a nice balance of speed, handling and resistance. I've carefully calibrated the velo 5, accurate measurements showing the tyres (700c x 38) to have a circumference of 619 as opposed to 623 with the original Kendas.

It may be largely psycological but the whole riding experience now seems a lot better, unfortunately the weather has put a stop to my testing (don't want to get my new tyres dirty ) but the forecast for tomorrow looks better.

 

[flecc]

I've still got my Torq on the Kendas as a wear resistance test Ian, but the other two and a previous bike on the Marathon Plus have always been much nicer to ride with less rolling resistance. Among the Chinese tyres, only the Maxxis on the Twist seemed to have low rolling resistance, but they were very prone to punctures and wore very fast.

I think tyre manufacture is a black art which only Bridgestone in the Far East has mastered.

 

[Ian]

One big difference I've noticed already is how much quiter the marathons are. The kendas did "sizzle" quite loudly at higher speeds, and while I could be wrong, tyre noise does to me suggest wasted energy.

 

[flecc]

I agree Ian, that noise must come from tread block flexure, which isn't being returned as kinetic energy drive for if it was, there'd probably be little or no noise.
.

 

[coops]

Thanks for the further info on the grips & throttle mod Ian, and I'm very interested to hear how the marathon pluses perform compared with the Kendas: what's the ride comfort like at those 65/75 PSI pressures, and what pressures did you use before for the Kendas? I find any more than 50 rear & 45 front (Kenda) too bumpy on my roads, but does that extra thick m-plus "smartguard" layer give any extra "cushioning" to compensate for the narrower 38 width?

The kendas did "sizzle" quite loudly at higher speeds

I'll have to listen out for that next time I'm out, if I can find anywhere quiet enough to hear it! My old very knobbly MTB were very buzzy; the Schwalbe Silento (semi-slicks) I replaced them with were just that, silent, and much lower rolling resistance.

Is it your Torq's birthday?

 

[Ian]

Stuart,
The sun came out I just went out for a short ride, can't believe it's the same bike, seems easier to pedal, but that may be the wind! (No, not from baked beans), definatly quiter and the handling has changed beyond belief, my Torq was never easy to ride hands off, but it's no problem with the new tyres, it's dead easy to U turn in a narrow street without putting a foot down and it just feels a lot more nimble and agile. The narrow tyres look good as well, at least to my eyes.

Overall the ride seems better than before, but that's those grips, I don't think the tyres have changed it much. I ran the Kendas at 60-70 psi in an effort to reduce rolling resistance and I ditched the sprung seatpost, so I'm probably hardened to the bumps. I think the smartguard layer probably helps to cushion vibration, the tread crown seems slightly soft even when pumped up rock hard.

I found at an early stage that padded gloves and shorts/boxers help at reducing vibration and wear them on anything but the shortest of rides.

I hear the Tour de France is starting in London this year, I almost feel up to it with the sportified bike. Anyone else fancy joining "Team Electrique"?

Ian.

 

[coops]

Thanks for the update Ian, sounds very positive indeed and a well co-ordinated upgrade of grips & tyres together to improve handling, performance & comfort too (to a degree) . I'll certainly consider all those changes myself in time, and with a "sportified" Torq I think I'd almost feel up to joining "Team Electrique" too!!

I'm becoming more assured that the 40-622 (700x38C, 28"x1.50") size marathon plus is a good one for the Torq - a "good balance between speed and comfort" Russ said & Nigel said they give a smooth ride, they are within a recommended width range for the Torq's rim width, and the recommended pressure range is no different from the Kendas 3.5-6.0bar (50-85PSI) so I suppose they ought to give sufficient "pneumatic suspension", in addition to their almost total flat-protection (touch wood!)

I'm puzzled by specified tyre width sizes though: the standard Kenda 47-622 (700x45C, 28" x 1 3/4" x 1 5/8") seem barely 41-42mm maximum width (in profile), which, though less than either the 47 or 45 specified, curiously matches the 1 5/8" measurement given?

Although I guess the width is more important for handling than pressure level & comfort, if you don't mind could you measure your m-plus widths (profile i.e. tread width in a straight line) to see how they compare, out of interest? I'd much appreciate it if you could

 

[Ian]

if you don't mind could you measure your m-plus widths (profile i.e. tread width in a straight line)

Stuart,

the marathon+ measures 33mm across the tread, and 38mm at the tyres widest point (halfway up the sidewall). The tyre has a very round profile and I did notice from the initial "dirtying" that only about 12mm of the width is in contact with the road at the 65/70 psi I have found to be suitable.

I have done 20 miles today and can confirm my initial observations, the ride is smoother and the bike is handling like a dream. As I said before much of the smoothness is probably the grips but I do believe the tyres are contributing something. The grips really have made a big difference to comfort, I had no fatigue in the palms and wrists, something that's usually set in by the 10th mile necessitating sitting up and relaxing the hands. I was wearing my usual track mitts but feel sure I would have been OK without.

I took the bike to a favourite hill to see what speed I could achieve with gravity power alone, unfortunately the road has had a new surface dressing since my last visit so the 28.5 mph I was able to achieve today can't be compared to the 29 mph I've achieved on the roads previous smooth worn surface.

The improvements brought about have tended to overshadow the original reason for changing to the M+, i.e.. the puncture protection which alone is a good enough reason for most people.

It's worth mentioning that I bought the stuff from wiggle and managed(easily) to get the order to £50 which then qualifies for 10% off, also I chose free (non-priority) delivery but still got the stuff the next day, saving 3.99 postage as I have done before.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Blow out!

Just came back from a ride about with my 3yr old in the child seat on the back. While sat there in the park my front wheel inner tube exploded!!!

My ears were ringing for about a minute.

The tyre pressure was 60psi ( I had checked before the ride) with Marathon Plus tyres, and a normal inner tube.

I do carry a spare inner tube with me as standard (as well as a puncture kit and one of the cans of instant inflate), but if I hadnt had the extra tubes I would have been in trouble.

I would not like to be on the road in traffic when that happened as you completely lose control of the bike.

The tyres say 45 - 65 psi.

What do people recommend as a good tyre pressure for Marathon + on these bikes, should you always go with the manufacturers recommendations?

Whats a 'good' pressure?

John

 

[Ian]

That sounds a bit scary John. Shwalbe reccomend 50-85 psi so you were well within limits. I would guess that the tube explosion probably has nothing to do with the tyre, could a spoke protruding from a nipple have caused it? has the thick rim band become damaged? It might have been a faulty tube even.

All the advice I've ever seen does say stick to manufacturers recommendations
to avoid the risk of pinch flats, rim damage or even explosions!!

A friend of mine who runs his thin racing tyres at 120 psi tells me he has had punctures that sound like a gun firing and wreck the tube.

 

[stevebee]

Just put Marathon Plus on my Torq from the original Kendas. First impressions were : - faster (my computer wasn't reset so couldn't confirm with data !!)
- much more control - i agree that with the Kenda's they seemed to squiggle across the road (never brave enough to go no hands )

BUT much harder ride. On the same route felt harder through the wrists . Have now tried the bars more upright (60 degrees ) to see if that helps.
Won't go back to the Kenda's as these feel more responsive - just wish I had Fleccs tech know how to do that throttle improvement but just changing the tyres was a challenge enough ! ( too many wires, too much grease and only one pair of hands :-()

 

[stevebee]

One thing I meant to mention. I've been thinking of adding some bar ends (Cane Creek Ergo)
Is this possible with the throttle of the Torq - I'm assumming not

 

[coops]

Hi Ian: Thanks for the extra info, very useful: seems the 38C m+ are only a little (~3-4mm) narrower than the Kendas then, with a more rounded tread, smaller ground contact & can run at similar pressures.

edit: P.S. next question will be, how do the m+ affect power consumption & range?

Hi JohninStockie: Sorry to hear about your blowout; I hope your ears & wits have recovered! Are your m+ the same 38C size as Ian's? & that's on a Twist, right? Good job you had a spare tube, and lucky you had stopped at the time! I'd definitely check the tyre rim for protrusions like Ian said before going out again.

Hi stevebee: Ride comfort was my concern about the narrower m+ too: what width are they, 38C? and are they at the same pressures as your kendas before? I've found that for me the comfort level on my kendas is highly pressure-sensitive, front tyre especially: front 50-55psi gives a very hard ride, but 45psi is ok so I keep to 45psi front & 50psi rear. The recommended pressure range for the 38C m+ is the same as the kendas at 50-85psi, 3.5-6.0bar.

Schwalbe say to use a pressure gauge to adjust tyre pressure as the common "thumb check" is insufficient due to the special construction of the m+.

Failing that, the upright bars should help to a degree, and it sounds like padded grips are a good option too, but one change at a time, eh? a tyre change is a big task for me too: I hope you find a pressure which works ok for you with the m+, or a mod which helps: sorry, I don't know if bar ends can be used with the torq throttle, but someone may come up with a mod to do so!

 

[Ian]

One thing I meant to mention. I've been thinking of adding some bar ends (Cane Creek Ergo)
Is this possible with the throttle of the Torq - I'm assumming not

That would be easy enough to do Steve, just cut a circular hole in the end of the existing throttle grip so that the entire twistgrip assembly can be moved inboard 30mm or so. That would leave enough bare handebar protruding to clamp the bar end to.

Alternatively, the entire twistgrip could be relocated to the the bar end as long as it is the same diameter as the handlebars and has a long enough straight portion. you'd probably have to re-route the throttle cable to get enough slack.

Anyone wary of doing Fleccs throttle mod in it's entirety could simply cut a hole in the grip as above, move the twistgrip inboard as far as the bend in the bars and then cut down a new grip to the length of the exposed bar.

 

[Ian]

P.S. next question will be, how do the m+ affect power consumption & range?

It's early days yet Stuart, but looking good so far. After a 20 mile ride with a total ascent of 700' the battery took 1¾ hours to fully recharge consuming 0.21 KWh in the process (a full charge takes 3½ hours from almost flat). Thats not a particularly accurate way to measure consumption, but it does serve as a rough guide.

I should add that the ride was in restricted mode, with a reasonable amount of pedaling, Average speed was 11 mph. Climb data came from a Garmin GPS with altimeter which was also used to verify speed and distance data from the Velo 5, the difference being only 0.05 miles in 20 (0.25% error)

 

[coops]

That sounds good Ian, though I'm not well experienced at judging consumption from partial discharges, and it will also depend very strongly on your speed & throttle use during your trip: 700' is quite a lot of ascent too! How does that discharge level compare with your previous usage, would you say? A significant difference or about the same?

Very early days though, as you say!