Check out the battery on this bike

John Fleet

Pedelecer
Mar 26, 2007
104
1
Whitley Bay
Fascinating article - be great if at least half of what they promise transpire!

"For 2008 PowaCycle’s in-house design team has developed a new battery, new motor as well as electrical components for the new PowaCycle Extreme bikes. These will be the first of the new range to be launched in February 2008. “The first model to be launched is a hybrid-style, electric mountain bike. The MTB will be lightweight and powered by a new Lithium Polymer battery,” adds Mughal. “The 2008 range will see the introduction of the third generation of motors, which are lighter, quieter, with higher efficiency and with greater torque than the previous generation. The new range brings high power efficiencies of up to 82 per cent. “The range will feature electric bikes that offer power-assisted cycling with ranges of between 25 and anoutstanding 100 miles on a single charge. That’s a huge improvement on anything currently available, and the 2008 range is also extremely ightweight weighing between 16 to 20kg."

I've emailed them pointing out the the article claims the new bikes will 'launched" in Feb 2008, but that there's no sign of them as yet on their web site - so it seems that it's not only 50 cycles and Wisper who are prone to 'optimism' in estimates of when new models will be available.

I'd dearly love to hear FLECC's views on the Powacycle articles (or indeed our friends from Wisper as I see that they are online at the moment!)

Hype aside, the article does present a really encouraging view of the future for electric bikes, although I'm slightly wary that they've not given any indication of how many of our rapidly devaluing pounds they are likely to want us to part with in exchange for one of these high tech beauties....
 

Tiberius

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 9, 2007
919
1
Somerset
I liked the bit about "lead asset batteries".

Either an oblique comment on recycling and scrap value, or use of spell checker without human brain engaged.

Nick
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
Fascinating article - be great if at least half of what they promise transpire!

"For 2008 PowaCycle’s in-house design team has developed a new battery, new motor as well as electrical components for the new PowaCycle Extreme bikes. These will be the first of the new range to be launched in February 2008. “The first model to be launched is a hybrid-style, electric mountain bike. The MTB will be lightweight and powered by a new Lithium Polymer battery,” adds Mughal. “The 2008 range will see the introduction of the third generation of motors, which are lighter, quieter, with higher efficiency and with greater torque than the previous generation. The new range brings high power efficiencies of up to 82 per cent. “The range will feature electric bikes that offer power-assisted cycling with ranges of between 25 and anoutstanding 100 miles on a single charge. That’s a huge improvement on anything currently available, and the 2008 range is also extremely ightweight weighing between 16 to 20kg."

I've emailed them pointing out the the article claims the new bikes will 'launched" in Feb 2008, but that there's no sign of them as yet on their web site - so it seems that it's not only 50 cycles and Wisper who are prone to 'optimism' in estimates of when new models will be available.

I'd dearly love to hear FLECC's views on the Powacycle articles (or indeed our friends from Wisper as I see that they are online at the moment!)

Hype aside, the article does present a really encouraging view of the future for electric bikes, although I'm slightly wary that they've not given any indication of how many of our rapidly devaluing pounds they are likely to want us to part with in exchange for one of these high tech beauties....
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i like the bit
"with ranges of between 25 and anoutstanding 100 miles on a single charge. That’s a huge improvement on anything currently available, and the 2008 range is also extremely ightweight weighing between 16 to 20kg."


that sounds like you do your 25 miles which is no problem then you take off front and back wheels and hop on a train with whats left for the remaining 75 miles........:rolleyes:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,412
30,745
Of course there is a lot of hype there as one might expect, though there are grains of truth.

These are clearly 26 volt systems and from judgement of the batteries and knowing the current technology, not very powerful, so continuing Powacycles preference for range over high power.

The new generation polymer batteries do give longer ranges as witness the Wisper 905se capability for 40 miles, and the claim of 25 miles is already normal on todays Powacycle LPX models, so no change there. The indication of 100 miles is an "in your dreams" bit of silliness, as even in the best conditions of flat running it's unlikely that these bikes could get near two thirds of that.

There will be some gain in hilly areas resulting from the reduced weight of these bikes, but as a percentage of the total weight of bike and riders it's very small, so the gain is correspondingly low.

The mountain bike will not have a very long range, since it's flat battery is clearly a side by side array of seven small flat cells with the electronics in the bulge, the capacity too small to break any records. As so often with small wheel folding bikes, the one they illustrate is too low geared, only high end folders like some from Dahon addressing this inherent disadvantage.

So in summary they are interesting and some advance on present models, but not so much the revolutionary leap indicated, more keeping pace with the best competition. Much depends on whether they keep to their present budget pricing policy.
.
 
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UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
The mountain bike will not have a very long range, since it's flat battery is clearly a side by side array of seven small flat cells with the electronics in the bulge, the capacity too small to break any records. As so often with small wheel folding bikes, the one they illustrate is too low geared, only high end folders like some from Dahon addressing this inherent disadvantage.
Yes, i agree about the low gears flecc but wasnt referring to the folding bikes ...just wanted comments on the mountain bike. However, speaking of the gears, would you say the nano brompton's gearing is sufficient for the motor?
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
Fascinating article - be great if at least half of what they promise transpire!

I've emailed them pointing out the the article claims the new bikes will 'launched" in Feb 2008, but that there's no sign of them as yet on their web site - so it seems that it's not only 50 cycles and Wisper who are prone to 'optimism' in estimates of when new models will be available.
To be fair to Powacycle JohnFleet, they are not advertising the bike on their website or taking money so not really the same - what you see is an article written this year. The range does seem rather extrodinary but the bike looks fantastic and you couldnt tell it was electric.

Hope to hear more about it soon.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,412
30,745
Yes, i agree about the low gears flecc but wasnt referring to the folding bikes ...just wanted comments on the mountain bike. However, speaking of the gears, would you say the nano brompton's gearing is sufficient for the motor?
Misunderstanding, I was replying to johnl who said he wanted to hear my views. :)

The Nano-Brompton's gearing is adequate for matching the motor which is very low geared in a 16" wheel and tops out at 13 mph, only just managing 14 mph initially on a fully charged battery. However, as bicycle gearing it's inadequate as with nearly all small wheel bikes, hence many owners spending large sums on such things as hub gear conversions to Rohloff and the like.

This Powacycle folder, unlike the current Puma, has a 20" motor wheel and is stated to be an all round commuting bike. With the chainwheel shown it's too low geared to completely fulfil that role, as said, a fault common to small wheel bikes. The usual fix is a very small top gear sprocket, but sprockets of 11 teeth or less are inefficient and wear very fast, and anyway don't completely solve the gearing problem.
.
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
So, is there no solution to the gearing problem flecc? Could hub gears be the way forward?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,412
30,745
So, is there no solution to the gearing problem flecc? Could hub gears be the way forward?
It's a difficult one. One more efficient way is a very large chainwheel, and I used that on my Q bike, it's 60 tooth one shown here, but that leaves a low chainline and the chainwheel is vulnerable to damage and it increases the folded size.

The best solution is to have a very wide ranging gear system like the Rohloff hub or SRAM's DualDrive which combines a derailleur with a three speed hub gear. These systems have ranges of over 500%, so do answer the problem at the cost of weight, complexity and prices of hundreds of pounds.

Another expensive solution is the Shlumpff bottom bracket high speed drive which gives switching of the chainwheel speed between normal and very much speeded up. They are inefficient with quite high drag though.

So to solve it costs, in cash, in efficiency, or both.
.
 

UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
675
43
The best solution is to have a very wide ranging gear system like the Rohloff hub or SRAM's DualDrive which combines a derailleur with a three speed hub gear. These systems have ranges of over 500%, so do answer the problem at the cost of weight, complexity and prices of hundreds of pounds.
So, it is possible for bike companies to get the gearing right on small wheeled bikes :rolleyes: Would it be too expensive for them to do it?

I see people cruising along on normal bromptons at reasonable speeds and look very comfy doing so. If what you say is correct about the gearing being adequate with a motor, then maybe they have got it right with the nano brompton? How reliable is the nano kit and has there been a long term review on it?

I am happy riding a bike at 13mph flecc and feel the nano may be something for me to consider in future - what are your thoughts on it?

Cheers

UrbanPuma
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,412
30,745
So, it is possible for bike companies to get the gearing right on small wheeled bikes :rolleyes: Would it be too expensive for them to do it?

I see people cruising along on normal bromptons at reasonable speeds and look very comfy doing so. If what you say is correct about the gearing being adequate with a motor, then maybe they have got it right with the nano brompton? How reliable is the nano kit and has there been a long term review on it?

I am happy riding a bike at 13mph flecc and feel the nano may be something for me to consider in future - what are your thoughts on it?

Cheers

UrbanPuma
Yes, generally far too expensive, the Rohloff hub alone adding almost £600. Dahon has two high end models for the well heeled with various solutions I've mentioned.

At 13 mph the Nano-Brompton is fine, both motor and rider gearing sufficient, but Bromptons do have the same gearing problems and many have spent large sums in trying to get higher gearing. Brompton and others have various bodges like dual sprockets on hub gears.

The Nano is proving very unreliable in various ways, but the low geared very small wheel application for it in this Brompton is the most suitable and least likely to provoke problems.

That said, I'm not recommending it, since I think it needs to prove it's reliability now after so many failures elsewhere.
.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,311
2,279
69
Sevenoaks Kent
Optimistic

"so it seems that it's not only 50 cycles and Wisper who are prone to 'optimism' in estimates of when new models will be available."

We are very embarrassed by this but we did give everyone rather an optimistic date.

Our biggest problem has been getting the Shimano parts, which have still not been delivered despite an advised delivery date to us in early February :(.

We have now managed to buy the Alivio dérailleurs and the free wheels from Spain so can start delivering bikes soon.

In future we will not be taking orders for new bikes until we have them at sea. Once bitten :eek: !

Best regards David
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
6,311
2,279
69
Sevenoaks Kent
Glitch!

Hi David,

FYI: When quoting from a previous post you can click the
button to make your "quote" more quote-like ;)

Regards,

Elephants
Thanks Elephants, I usually do but for some reason I couldn't on this occasion :confused: .

All the best David