Changes in S pedelecs laws

The Netherlands where the S class speed e-bikes were recently introduced are now introducing compulsory helmet wearing for them.

One of the reasons given is that the EU is introducing legislation on 1st January 2017 classing the S class bikes as mopeds EU wide. On the surface that appears to mean driving licences will become necessary, but I don't know if that would mean the existing P licence or the new Q licence group that at present applies for class L1e-A.

So rather than hopes for the UK to follow Germany, they may now have to mimic our bureacracy for their S class e-bikes.

Every cloud has it's silver lining though, classing them as mopeds means makers will have to make them comply with moped law and type approve them ready for registration here in the UK. For those with a P licence or a full car licence gained before 1st February 2001, that makes buying and legally riding an S class bike much simpler.

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Edited April 15, 201511 yr by flecc

I ride a 350w 45kph top speed S Pedelec and would love to legalise myself. My knowledge of all this is hazy to say the least. If, a some point in the future I could ride my pedelec with type approval,third part insurance, registration and an appropriate license I'd be happy. I'd have no problems being a motor vehicle in the eyes of the law. I'm worried however about the helmet requirement. Are the Dutch requiring a full motorbike helmet or merely the compulory use of a cycle helmet? I'd (reluctantly) use a cycle helmet if required to do so, but I can't imagine cycling in a full face motorbike lid,

How do you see the helmet issue playing out in the UK?

The problem with legalising S-pedelecs is they will no longer be bicycles (I'm assuming) which means you can only use them on the road.

Lid preferences aside, a petrol moped would be a much better prospect.

Cheaper to buy, faster, longer range, longer life, and cheaper to maintain should you ever reach replacement battery time.

How do you see the helmet issue playing out in the UK?

The Dutch were strongly opposed to attempts to introduce compulsory cycle helmets so I'm sure they will be liberal about the helmet type.

We aren't usually liberal in the UK, but I think the bicycle nature of the S class pedelecs won't attract trouble from the police on type of helmet grounds. It's likely they will be satisfied if the bike has it's number plate and is taxed and insured on the database and the rider is wearing a helmet.

I see it as rather like seat belts, they are satisfied if one is worn and don't concern themselves if it's to BS specification. Likewise child seats in cars, as long as one looks reasonable it's ok to them.

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The problem with legalising S-pedelecs is they will no longer be bicycles (I'm assuming) which means you can only use them on the road.

Some things about the construction and use of the bikes as mopeds are EU matters and only the 2017 law will finalise those, but this sort of issue will depend on each country. Certainly if we don't introduce specific laws if allowed ruling otherwise for the S class mopeds, they will be confined to roads and should be used with approved m/c helmets.

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Edited April 15, 201511 yr by flecc

The problem with legalising S-pedelecs is they will no longer be bicycles (I'm assuming) which means you can only use them on the road.

 

Lid preferences aside, a petrol moped would be a much better prospect.

 

Cheaper to buy, faster, longer range, longer life, and cheaper to maintain should you ever reach replacement battery time.

Doesn't get you fit though. I'm commuting 18 hilly miles each way three times a week on mine. Mostly I'm in economy mode so I'm working quite hard. 2 to 2 .5 hours exercise each journey.

A s-pedelec which is type approved in any EU country can be registered as a moped here in France. I have done a lot of thinking about them (s-pedelecs) and come to the conclusion that a pedelec is a much better option (for me) for the following reasons:

1. You can't pedal with a motorbike helmet on (that law killed the Mobylette here). If you run out of battery you can not pedal home without your helmet on, a moped stays a moped even without a working motor. Try negociating lack of helmet with Basque policemen and see how it works out for you! 135€ fine...

2. You can't go (legally) over 45km/h on a moped, even downhill with the wind in your back in France...

3. Average (legal) speed difference is not huge thanks to point 2 (we have lots of hills)

4. You can't tow a trailor

5. Range for similar battery density is much shorter

6. Can only be used on roads

7. less important stuff like for example large price difference for basically the same bike with an electric horn, brake lights and a number plate holder...

So once I get my first pedelec conversion done my second one will also be a pedelec for above reasons.

Tony

The Dutch were strongly opposed to attempts to introduce compulsory cycle helmets so I'm sure they will be liberal about the helmet type.

 

We aren't usually liberal in the UK, but I think the bicycle nature of the S class pedelecs won't attract trouble from the police on type of helmet grounds. It's likely they will be satisfied if the bike has it's number plate and is taxed and insured on the database and the rider is wearing a helmet.

 

I see it as rather like seat belts, they are satisfied if one is worn and don't concern themselves if it's to BS specification. Likewise child seats in cars, as long as one looks reasonable it's ok to them.

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For my particular circumstances that would be perfect. I have no wish to go off road on mine, like I say I'm happy to be a motor vehicle driver providing I don't have to wear a m/c helmet.

Doesn't get you fit though. I'm commuting 18 hilly miles each way three times a week on mine. Mostly I'm in economy mode so I'm working quite hard. 2 to 2 .5 hours exercise each journey.

True, although ebiking has been a disappointment to me in that respect.

I have Bosch bikes - no throttle - and have done a lot of miles over the last couple of years.

The impact on my fitness has not been as great as I had hoped.

It's a hard thing to measure, but in terms of fitness gain I reckon 50 miles on an ebike equates to about 10 on a push bike.

A s-pedelec which is type approved in any EU country can be registered as a moped here in France. I have done a lot of thinking about them (s-pedelecs) and come to the conclusion that a pedelec is a much better option (for me) for the following reasons:

 

4. You can't tow a trailor

You can whether it's a bike or moped. Motorcycles often tow trailers and both Vespa and Lambretta have made scooter matching trailers in the past for their machines.

The custom matching trailer for a two wheeler that you are most likely to see these days will be behind a BSA Goldwing.

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Not in France. Pedelec yes, moped no. Code de la route...

"La réponse est simple et vaut pour toutes les catégories de véhicule : pour pouvoir tracter, le véhicule tracteur, quel qu’il soit (voiture, moto, quad, trike, etc.), doit être autorisé à le faire.

Pour le savoir, il suffit de regarder la carte grise du véhicule. "

If the moped manufacturor has not specifically said that a trailor is allowed then it isn't. Motorbike manufacturors of certain types of motorbikes have done the necessary paperwork and a trailor is allowed if mentioned on the registration certificate. I have no knowledge of a modern moped which has that authorisation. The Mobylette 103 yes! My eledest son did a tour of Brittany on a Mobylette last summer and the camping gear was in a trailor.

Tony

Edited April 15, 201511 yr by anotherkiwi

The Mobylette 103 yes!

France looking after it's own!

Just like the Germans, see this thread

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True, although ebiking has been a disappointment to me in that respect.

 

I have Bosch bikes - no throttle - and have done a lot of miles over the last couple of years.

 

The impact on my fitness has not been as great as I had hoped.

 

It's a hard thing to measure, but in terms of fitness gain I reckon 50 miles on an ebike equates to about 10 on a push bike.

Rob, I've concluded that to get fit on a 250w Bosch bike you need a dongle. Once fitted aim to cruise, on the flat, 25mph + This will be more comparable to a regular cycle. A non dongled version will have you sitting at 15 mph and remaining in pipe and slipper mode.

On another note, I'm sure Health and Safety will kick in and do away with cycling in a motorcycle helmet on any S version moped.

Dyson is a hero in France, maybe he is a freind of Ph. Starck?

The spin here was energy saving yes but also children hurting themselves when playing with high powered vacuum cleaners (made in nasty China).

Tony

France looking after it's own!

 

Just like the Germans, see this thread

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There is a huge youth movement to collecting and running old classic Mobylettes much the same as for Vespas. They of course wear illegal bowl type helmets with aviator goggles for the "coolness" and get away with it because most cops dig the coolnes factor too!

Rob, I've concluded that to get fit on a 250w Bosch bike you need a dongle. Once fitted aim to cruise, on the flat, 25mph + This will be more comparable to a regular cycle. A non dongled version will have you sitting at 15 mph and remaining in pipe and slipper mode.

Depends whether you live in a hilly area I should think. I have to work fairly hard on my Kalkhoff to keep up a good speed. But there is almost no flat at all where I live and I’m either going up or down all the time. It’s just variation of gradient really. It can pedal past the 17mph cut out on the few flat bits okay when I go down in the river valley though. Once the heavy mother is up and going it rolls pretty well.

There is a huge youth movement to collecting and running old classic Mobylettes much the same as for Vespas. They of course wear illegal bowl type helmets with aviator goggles for the "coolness" and get away with it because most cops dig the coolnes factor too!

Are the pudding basin helmets illegal in France now? I thought they were still okay in the UK. Or have they been banned here now too?

Yep they have to be E 22-04 or E 22-05 or NF S 72.305

No bowl helmets have passed or can (ear protection) hence my keen interest in the Cratoni Vigor (250€ all the same...)

Are the pudding basin helmets illegal in France now? I thought they were still okay in the UK. Or have they been banned here now too?

They probably are illegal here in the UK since the regulations require a current BS approved helmet which those old ACU race helmets won't be.

The police don't seem to bother though, often worn by riders of vintage machines such as Royal Enfield Bullets and the like.

For racing they relied on leather for ear protection, Geoff Duke below:

http://www.vintagebike.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/gallery/racingpictures/geoff-duke-738x570.jpg

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Depends whether you live in a hilly area I should think. I have to work fairly hard on my Kalkhoff to keep up a good speed. But there is almost no flat at all where I live and I’m either going up or down all the time. It’s just variation of gradient really. It can pedal past the 17mph cut out on the few flat bits okay when I go down in the river valley though. Once the heavy mother is up and going it rolls pretty well.

You are right John. Flat round here,at least it is on my commute. A hilly area would no doubt keep you pretty fit on a standard Bosch.

Hi I am new to this forum, so have not read that much, but I am thinking of getting a Pedelec to do the 16 mile commute to work in Manchester.

I would rather go for an "S" Pedelec, as it is road all the way into town and back.

Having read that "S" Pedelecs could become legal to use in the UK from 2017, my thoughts are to hang on until this time.

I understand that a cycle helmet will be mandatory, although would not want to have a motorbike type helmet.

Insurance and Small Reg Plate would not be an issue.

Is it the case that in Germany that a reg cycle helmet is mandatory, and not a motorbike type helmet, what are the chances of UK following suite.

just get a dongle then you have a s pedelec

can be removed in 2 seconds. i dont even take mine of and no problems from police.

Is it the case that in Germany that a reg cycle helmet is mandatory, and not a motorbike type helmet, what are the chances of UK following suite.

I understand that in Germany that cycle helmets are mandatory for S class use and I believe it's the same in The Netherlands. France intends to follow in 2017. If the UK does allow S pedelecs I've little doubt they would also follow the same pattern, but I'm not confident they will allow them. The DfT attitude to high speed e-bikes has been very negative when the matter has been raised previously.

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There are nice s-pedelec helmets on the market. By nice I mean offering some protection, being comfortable and not looking like you have put an upturned egg basket on your head...

Having a few km under my belt what is the show stopper for me for the moment is s-pedelec range. If you are doing a fast 30 km commute they are ideal but the vanilla pedelec is a better tool for long range travels.

Cheaper, larger capacity batteries will of course fix the range problem eventually.