Calling all Wooshers and kalkhoffers! and anyone else...

[Pete]

Hello to all. I joined this forum in 2008 when I first got interested in e-bikes. I had great help on here, but in spite of that I still bought an Alien Ocean! I was amazed by the whole subject about which I knew zero, but the depth of expertise of the members on here and their generosity in passing it on never ceased to surprise me. One chap in particular I remember went by the name of Flecc, who seemed to know absolutely everything and didn't bamboozle me with buzzwords, the mark of the truly knowledgeable, and incredibly he still seems to be going strong and was the first name I saw when I logged in today! He won't remember but he was a very great help to me. Unfortunately things change and after enjoying a couple of years with my alien illness and a few other things put me off the road. I am now 68 and feel able to pick it up again. The first thing that struck me when I started looking around was the technical advances that have been made and the sheer number of e-bikes, which in 2008 you could count on one hand. That is the nub of my problem now I think, there is so much stuff to read I am getting overwhelmed. For now I have a fairly simple question. Having been very happy with the Alien (battery seems to have gone) I started looking at similar but I was soon seduced by the talk of CD's. Anyway I tried a Kalkhoff with an impulse 2 drive and hub gears, and what a fantastic machine it was, except for me it lacked a throttle. Further looking showed that there are other crank drives about, some with a throttle. In particular I am interested in the Woosh Krieger which is substantially cheaper. I am not asking the impossible question "is it any good for me" more "is it any good" In other words how is it different from riding the Kalkhoff, is it reliable etc and does the throttle work like a conventional throttle did on my Alien. If anyone has experience of both it would be good to hear from them, likewise anyone who might remember me from times past.
Regards to all
Pete

 

[flecc]

Hello Pete, thank you for the kind words and yes, I do remember you since we didn't have quite so many members back then.

Now I'm going to let you down on the knowledge front since I've never ridden the Woosh Krieger and since it's a new introduction using a quite new crank drive motor, no-one knows how reliable it will be long term.

However, all the indicators are good and all e-bikes have got a whole lot more reliable than they were back in 2008, plus the batteries are greatly improved since then in terms of reliability and performance.

Add to that the fact that Woosh have been proving to be a sound company with products that many members have and like very much and the Krieger seems to be a very good bet.

It shouldn't be too different from the Kalkhoff you tried, though having and using a throttle will be very different of course. Also it doesn't at present offer Kalkhoff's wide range of battery sizes for the future, but on the other hand the Krieger's battery is very much less expensive.

As ever, ideally try to get an opportunity to try it out for yourself.
.

 

[vidtek]

I'm new to this myself, and last month bought a Whoosh Sunbear for myself and a Kudos Safari for my wife. I've been on the bike a few times now and I can say I'm actually enjoying the experience. These are fairly low-end bikes pricewise, but both have everything we need. I plumped for the Sunbear as it's a step-through Dutch style bike, and as I'm heading for pension age in July wasn't sure how long I'll be able to get a leg-over-no pun intended!
My only complaint is these modern torture devices they call saddles. I tried very hard to get a 1950's style saddle that will play nice with my bony bum, to no avail. Nobody on this forum seems to share my aversion to modern torture devices, so maybe it's just me, I don't know.
Anyway, rest assured, when dealing with Andy at Whoosh bikes you'll get great service and advice, I did.
Best of luck, Tony.

 

[JohnCade]

Get a Brooks or Spa leather saddle. The Spa one is cheaper but just as good. I’ve had both and use a Spa now.

 

[JohnCade]

Hello to all. I joined this forum in 2008 when I first got interested in e-bikes. I had great help on here, but in spite of that I still bought an Alien Ocean! I was amazed by the whole subject about which I knew zero, but the depth of expertise of the members on here and their generosity in passing it on never ceased to surprise me. One chap in particular I remember went by the name of Flecc, who seemed to know absolutely everything and didn't bamboozle me with buzzwords, the mark of the truly knowledgeable, and incredibly he still seems to be going strong and was the first name I saw when I logged in today! He won't remember but he was a very great help to me. Unfortunately things change and after enjoying a couple of years with my alien illness and a few other things put me off the road. I am now 68 and feel able to pick it up again. The first thing that struck me when I started looking around was the technical advances that have been made and the sheer number of e-bikes, which in 2008 you could count on one hand. That is the nub of my problem now I think, there is so much stuff to read I am getting overwhelmed. For now I have a fairly simple question. Having been very happy with the Alien (battery seems to have gone) I started looking at similar but I was soon seduced by the talk of CD's. Anyway I tried a Kalkhoff with an impulse 2 drive and hub gears, and what a fantastic machine it was, except for me it lacked a throttle. Further looking showed that there are other crank drives about, some with a throttle. In particular I am interested in the Woosh Krieger which is substantially cheaper. I am not asking the impossible question "is it any good for me" more "is it any good" In other words how is it different from riding the Kalkhoff, is it reliable etc and does the throttle work like a conventional throttle did on my Alien. If anyone has experience of both it would be good to hear from them, likewise anyone who might remember me from times past.
Regards to all
Pete

I’ve had a Woosh and now have a Kalkhoff. The Woosh was a CD Sport with the less powerful motor than the one you’re looking at. For the money it was a perfectly good bike but it wasn’t a patch on the Kalkhoff. Not in build quality or finish, or the quality of its parts. Not surprising given the price difference. But the Kalkhoff rides so much better and is such a pleasure to be on compared to the Woosh. The Impulse 11 you tried has a motor interrupt to make gear changing easy too, and the batteries should last twice or even three times as long as the Chinese ones. They do cost twice as much of course.

No throttle but do you really need one?

 

[RobF]

Much will depend on how much you like a quality bicycle.

I've ridden a couple of woosh bikes and both were OK as far as they went.

Taking price out of the equation, there is no comparison with something like a Kalkhoff.

The latest grey woosh bikes are an improvement on the old black ones.

I've not tried a Krieger and am not familiar with its motor.

One area in which the likes of the Impulse and Bosch bikes really score is power delivery, there's a smoothness which some of the cheaper motors lack.

Regulation means few of the quality European bikes have a throttle, so that may force you to look elsewhere.

 

[trex]

I have ridden all the woosh bikes and about 6 Kalkhoffs. The woosh bikes are good, I like the woosh Krieger (and the zephyr-B) best, but they are no match for Kalkhoff Impulse drive.

 

[vidtek]

Get a Brooks or Spa leather saddle. The Spa one is cheaper but just as good. I’ve had both and use a Spa now.

Thanks for the suggestion John, I have been looking at their websites, but neither do a wide saddle. The widest they have is just over 215mm. and trumpet them as extra wide!
I have a damaged coccyx from a soccer injury and need a saddle at least 250 mm wide. I suppose I'll just have to keep looking at car boot sales for antique ones.
Tony

 

[trex]

have you looked at the Suntour NCX seat post?

 

[JohnCade]

Thanks for the suggestion John, I have been looking at their websites, but neither do a wide saddle. The widest they have is just over 215mm. and trumpet them as extra wide!
I have a damaged coccyx from a soccer injury and need a saddle at least 250 mm wide. I suppose I'll just have to keep looking at car boot sales for antique ones.
Tony

You could try eBay. They often have vintage leather sprung saddles for sale. The old delivery bike ones can be very wide.

 

[Pete]

Hello Flecc, I might have known you would be the first to respond! Reliable as ever. Even though you haven't ridden the Krieger your general information about the company is useful. I did a little more research last night and it seems that the line between crank drives and hub motors has become a little blurred and for example there are some hubs which appear to be good climbers. So, back to square one really though I am hoping to make my mind up this weekend! Not sure whether I should keep this thread going in this introduce yourself thread. I shouldn't have asked the question in here in the first place I suppose. Anyway, I will no doubt be asking more questions you might feel like replying to and I will let you know what I have decided, and if I feel confident enough, do a review.

 

[Pete]

Thanks for the information Tony, I am not familiar with the Sunbear but will have a look. (is it just a step through Bigbear?) If so, I guess I might want to ask a question or two if you don't mind. Seems like you got some information re your saddle problem as a bonus. If it is any help It was the same for me when I got the Alien, and I was in agony for the first few rides and I though this is never going to work. After a couple of weeks it started to feel better and then improved quite rapidly. I was then bought a brookes saddle and I had to do it all over again, but I perservered and the same thing happened, only quicker.
Pete

 

[Pete]

I’ve had a Woosh and now have a Kalkhoff. The Woosh was a CD Sport with the less powerful motor than the one you’re looking at. For the money it was a perfectly good bike but it wasn’t a patch on the Kalkhoff. Not in build quality or finish, or the quality of its parts. Not surprising given the price difference. But the Kalkhoff rides so much better and is such a pleasure to be on compared to the Woosh. The Impulse 11 you tried has a motor interrupt to make gear changing easy too, and the batteries should last twice or even three times as long as the Chinese ones. They do cost twice as much of course.

No throttle but do you really need one?

 

[Pete]

Hello John, thanks for your reply. Can you hear my teeth gnashing? I had just finished a fairly long reply to you when my computer went woosh, as opposed to the bike, and it all disappeared! I tried all the usual tricks to recover it but none of them worked with the forum software. So, this will be a little abbreviated I'm afraid. I agree with what you say about quality, no doubt at all about that and the Kalkhoff was a beautiful ride. However as a pensioner (not one of these well off ones!) I am struggling to justify the expense of the Kalkhoff when I suspect the cheaper option may be just as good for me. Remember I only have experience of a cheap Alien and was happy with that so not hard to please. Throttle - in a word yes, not to be lazy, I would get a moped if I wanted to ride the roads on a throttle, but because most of my riding will be along tracks, paths, towpaths, bridleways etc, and the throttle on the alien really helped me negotiate tricky stuff where you had to go slow and maybe couldn't get any pedal pressure without a bit of a surge, say through a flooded track or a big puddle. Probably means I need to be looking at hub drives again, rather that the cd, say big bear rather than the Krieger, although this is supposed to have a throttle but I have been unable to find out exactly how it works and whether I can compare it with what I am used to.
Pete

 

[Pete]

Much will depend on how much you like a quality bicycle.

I've ridden a couple of woosh bikes and both were OK as far as they went.

Taking price out of the equation, there is no comparison with something like a Kalkhoff.

The latest grey woosh bikes are an improvement on the old black ones.

I've not tried a Krieger and am not familiar with its motor.

One area in which the likes of the Impulse and Bosch bikes really score is power delivery, there's a smoothness which some of the cheaper motors lack.

Regulation means few of the quality European bikes have a throttle, so that may force you to look elsewhere.

 

[Pete]

Hello Rob, thanks for your reply. You are quite right, a mini will get you there, a bentley will get you there in comfort. The Kalkhoff I rode was definitely in the Bentley class. Bit puzzled by your grey Woosh bikes as on their site they are mainly a steel blue and a couple of black ones? I am slowly re-assessing my need and still not sure whether a CD bike,will be the best for me, unless it has a practical throttle as most of my riding is on tracks, paths etc.

 

[Pete]

I have ridden all the woosh bikes and about 6 Kalkhoffs. The woosh bikes are good, I like the woosh Krieger (and the zephyr-B) best, but they are no match for Kalkhoff Impulse drive.

 

[Pete]

Hello Trex, thanks for your reply. You certainly have the experience to compare having ridden all those. I haven't had the chance to ride the Krieger yet as they are not in stock. The Kalkhoff was a lovely bike, but I definitely want a throttle. This may mean I have to go back and think about a hub motor but then I noticed that the Krieger spec says it has a throttle. Do you know if this is a conventional throttle or is it just some kind of walk assist feature. If it isn't a proper throttle I think I would be looking at the BigBear, what did you think of that. Most of my riding will be on tracks etc and hence my need for a throttle.
Thanks
Pete

 

[JohnCade]

Hello Trex, thanks for your reply. You certainly have the experience to compare having ridden all those. I haven't had the chance to ride the Krieger yet as they are not in stock. The Kalkhoff was a lovely bike, but I definitely want a throttle. This may mean I have to go back and think about a hub motor but then I noticed that the Krieger spec says it has a throttle. Do you know if this is a conventional throttle or is it just some kind of walk assist feature. If it isn't a proper throttle I think I would be looking at the BigBear, what did you think of that. Most of my riding will be on tracks etc and hence my need for a throttle.
Thanks
Pete

I was going to suggest you think of the BB. It’s always recommended here and has the power and the throttle. The Kalkhoff is torque sensor CD of course but I think the Woosh Krieger is speed sensor. It would need you to cut the motor manually to change too. Which is no big deal but the hub motor BB is easier on the transmission and gears.

At the price Woosh are very good, but I was just pointing out that it won’t maybe be as good as the Kalkhoff which you liked; and you were asking for comparisons.

 

[trex]

all the woosh bikes have a full throttle as in riding a motorbike, pedal if you want to.
The Krieger has half width throttle on the left grip.