Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Put Priti Patel on the actual boats and make her do the turning back.

UK Border Force could be given immunity over refugee deaths
Priti Patel is seeking legal protections for officers who ‘push back’ migrant boats

Maybe she'll fall in the water and be left?

 

[Danidl]

Whichever way you look at it the UK vaccine response has been a bright light in a sea of flickering candles. In many ways its covered up what was a poor response in other areas. (read the section in T and T and Cobra)
It became evident to all that on high levels of infection our Tand T simply could not cope... And had we been reliant on it this year (ie no vaccine) we would still be in lockdown.
To recognise faults in the system, which there undoubtedly are, you must highlight the good points. Dismissing everything, as you tend to do, actually gets us nowhere.
The systems put in place for funding, the procurement, the cooperation between NHS, central govt and local government along with good use of volunteers has been a quality not repeated in other areas.
The report is well worth reading. It does criticise but does not personalise. It's actually far better than I had imagined. Cobra has proven almost non functional. Main reason, odd security measures.
Before we all start apportioning blame and throwing mud we really must look at the systems, networks, communications and reasons some things didn't work.
Our institutional method of blaming an individual just won't work. Our failures over covid predate this government, and our succeses are not solely down to one or two individuals... But it does seem to me Chris Witty and Patrick Valance have been instrumental in much of our success. -( as as Sarah Gilbert)
Just blaming Boris is utterly ridiculous, pointless and will do no benefit for the future.
If the public investigation is similar to this report, I, d support it. If its a which hunt to make Dominic Cummings, OG and Starmer happy forget it. We, ll learn nothing by pinning blame on an individual, which historically is exactly what us English like to do.
Blame Guy Fawkes, Blame Hitler or Chamberlain. Don't blame the system. We must look at systematic failures and successes. The vaccine was a success. Saying otherwise is silly.

Nope!... That the initial rollout of vaccines was the only bright spot in an otherwise appalling mess. But the gloss of that was destroyed by the inexplicable reasoning that half a loaf was better than a full meal. Can you honestly say that this did not facilitate the resurgence in infections?.
Look instead at the numbers of dead in the UK as a fraction of population, and the fact that the UK and Ireland were the Best placed countries in Europe to reduce mortality in those early months. Remember the FIRST organisation in the UK to do anything about restrictions was WRU in March 2020 , followed soon after by the FA. The UK Government was downplaying everything, including your hero Boris boasting about shaking hands with everyone in Covid Wards. Now Zlatan, you are not so clueless as you pretend..
Now I am angry about this , particularly because it allowed the fundamentalist DUP in NI, in attempting to curry favour and brownie points with Westminster refused an all Ireland approach, and seriously contributed to our death rate . In fact the parents in NI voted with their feet and just withdrew kids from school BEFORE the system reacted. ... Even today they..DUP / Westminster True Believers are killing my fellow countrymen at at least 5 times the rate up North than here in the South with Covid .. Note the North in this context is 10 miles away.

 

[Zlatan]

Nope!... That the initial rollout of vaccines was the only bright spot in an otherwise appalling mess. But the gloss of that was destroyed by the inexplicable reasoning that half a loaf was better than a full meal. Can you honestly say that this did not facilitate the resurgence in infections?.
Look instead at the numbers of dead in the UK as a fraction of population, and the fact that the UK and Ireland were the Best placed countries in Europe to reduce mortality in those early months. Remember the FIRST organisation in the UK to do anything about restrictions was WRU in March 2020 , followed soon after by the FA. The UK Government was downplaying everything, including your hero Boris boasting about shaking hands with everyone in Covid Wards. Now Zlatan, you are not so clueless as you pretend..
Now I am angry about this , particularly because it allowed the fundamentalist DUP in NI, in attempting to curry favour and brownie points with Westminster refused an all Ireland approach, and seriously contributed to our death rate . In fact the parents in NI voted with their feet and just withdrew kids from school BEFORE the system reacted. ... Even today they..DUP / Westminster True Believers are killing my fellow countrymen at at least 5 times the rate up North than here in the South with Covid .. Note the North in this context is 10 miles away.

Wasn't me making the points... Was the report. They should have selected you for it. Shame they didn't.
Can only happen on here. Some bloke with an interest in pedelec knows more about the situation than a cross party select committee put together to investigate and report on Covid handling by Country, who go on to produce a 147 page detailed study... But nope.. Danidl and OG know better. Utter bo!! ox. You don't Danidl and neither does the other idiot OG.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, of course the report was wrong, obviously. The vaccine development and roll out was crap.
But the bits where critical were correct no doubt. Unbleuevable OG... But keep it up. You are like my 5 Yr old grandson... He makes himself sad and angry thinking entire world, especially his mum, is against him and wrong. He ends up being only one upset, crying and missing out. Keep it up OG, you are the one sad and upset... Not me. I, m quite happy with things. Not perfect, but not bad.. And as normal not one iota about how you can improve anything. Just keep moaning and looking on bleak side OG.
Yep, BJ is a poor specimen of an MP, unfortunately he's about best we have at moment. Tough luck OG. You could always glue your hands to M180, feckers would just p! ss on you in Hull tho.

And before you start repeating the nonsense our death rate is amongst worst in world... We are currently 25th in World, agreed many tiny countries worse but putting figures in perspective...
We are almost exactly 10% worse than France yet 10% better than Italy. (we have around 2000 deaths per million for covid)
And Italy has achieved that rate totally without Tories or Johnson. Then have a look at some other figures. (Bosnia?)

And in the eat out to help out... I didn't. I stayed home.. I didn't go to Cheltenham race course either. Whereas you did I suppose and ate out every night.. Doubt it somehow.
You want wrapping in cotton wool and every decision taken off you. For goodness sake OG, take some responsibility. People who need telling don't go to Cheltenham, don't go to pubs, don't go to swimming baths are morons and would probably ignore the advice anyway. Look how many anti vaxers we have. Suppose that's Boris' fault too.

And now your glorious leader has washed his hands of any further losses even with figures like this

There were 42,776 new infections in the UK today, the rest of Europe looks like this... France - 5,880 Germany - 5,818 Netherlands - 3,716 Italy - 2,772 Poland - 2,640 Belgium - 2,440 Austria - 2,614 Greece - 2,312 Ireland - 1,466 Portugal - 828 Denmark - 789 Norway - 188
UK #DailyCovidUpdate | 13th October 2021 - Cases: 8,272,883 (+42,776) - Average Cases: 39,072.86 - Deaths (28-day): 138,080 (+136) - Deaths (60-day): 157,962 (+172) - Average Deaths: 112.57 - Vaccine [1st dose]: 49,252,939 (+36,847) - Vaccine [2nd dose]: 45,239,759 (+26,946)

To put that in context at the time of the Pandemic there was widespread horror when the Chief Medical officer stated that a good outcome would be 20,000 death.
Now here we are with the so called wonderful vaccine rollout looking at 41,088, and the Government has claimed the pandemic is over?

Sorry but as usual you should sit down so we can't hear your voice.
Not only did they balls up the start but are busily ballsing up the ongoing situation.
Stop praising mass murderers.

 

[oldgroaner]

Wasn't me making the points... Was the report. They should have selected you for it. Shame they didn't.
Can only happen on here. Some bloke with an interest in pedelec knows more about the situation than a cross party select committee put together to investigate and report on Covid handling by Country, who go on to produce a 147 page detailed study... But nope.. Danidl and OG know better. Utter bo!! ox. You don't Danidl and neither does the other idiot OG.

And you not only know less than we do, you seem determined not to learn.

 

[Zlatan]

And you not only know less than we do, you seem determined not to learn.

Whereas you know more than folk writing report.. Yes, of course you do OG.
Read it all OG... But then again you don't need to do you.
You make the thread utterly pointless. Just ignore anything presented to you, regardless of its authenticity. Just your own ridiculous conclusions based in bias, media spin and prejudice. Brilliant. What a waste of ******* time. This thread and the report.

 

[Danidl]

Wasn't me making the points... Was the report. They should have selected you for it. Shame they didn't.
Can only happen on here. Some bloke with an interest in pedelec knows more about the situation than a cross party select committee put together to investigate and report on Covid handling by Country, who go on to produce a 147 page detailed study... But nope.. Danidl and OG know better. Utter bo!! ox. You don't Danidl and neither does the other idiot OG.

Your insults ..and that is what they are, I ignore The facts are and were the facts ... I am not going to read that report. Although I might be interested in a sworn public inquiry, where perjury is punishable by jail. We lived through those dark days. I couldn't comfort my sister in her bereavement in the UK My niece's and nephews put off their wedding plans multiple times in the UK.

 

[Danidl]

"We are almost exactly 10% worse than France yet 10% better than Italy. (we have around 2000 deaths per million for covid)
And Italy has achieved that rate totally without Tories or Johnson. Then have a look at some other figures. (Bosnia?)"

..Now We know you have lost it . Italy had this infection in February 2020, and was the world epicentre before we really knew what it was. France was in the same boat. If your memory works go back to February 2020, and people hanging around at apres ski events in the Alps ,then after their 10 days going home to all the places in Italy,Germany and France. Now the Italians had multigenerational family groups, but the Germans didn't. So the elderly people in Italy were going down like flies. Moreover you are missing out on the skewed statistics for the UK... It often takes more than 28 days to die. Italy had 15,000 Dead, before there was a 1000 dead in the UK. France was similar. .. in fact I recall getting messages from the mayor in my local village identifying the localities being affected in April onwards. What the French did was to shift patients with other conditions out of eastern regions , into Western France, to leave facilities available .
Even locally here in Ireland the hospitals went into crisis mode in February . My sister was scheduled for a lung dissection for cancer in late march, but they brought it forward by a month , and it was done in 26th. February., because they were preparing Action stations. .... she had planned telling her family at a leisurely pace, but was basically given 18 hours notice.
Better would be to look in how the UK squandered the window of time it had in March and the reprieve it got with the AZ vaccine. Now look at the EU performance in vaccine rollout to date.
Remember the UK was considered a first world country.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

And now your glorious leader has washed his hands of any further losses even with figures like this

There were 42,776 new infections in the UK today, the rest of Europe looks like this... France - 5,880 Germany - 5,818 Netherlands - 3,716 Italy - 2,772 Poland - 2,640 Belgium - 2,440 Austria - 2,614 Greece - 2,312 Ireland - 1,466 Portugal - 828 Denmark - 789 Norway - 188
UK #DailyCovidUpdate | 13th October 2021 - Cases: 8,272,883 (+42,776) - Average Cases: 39,072.86 - Deaths (28-day): 138,080 (+136) - Deaths (60-day): 157,962 (+172) - Average Deaths: 112.57 - Vaccine [1st dose]: 49,252,939 (+36,847) - Vaccine [2nd dose]: 45,239,759 (+26,946)

To put that in context at the time of the Pandemic there was widespread horror when the Chief Medical officer stated that a good outcome would be 20,000 death.
Now here we are with the so called wonderful vaccine rollout looking at 41,088, and the Government has claimed the pandemic is over?

Sorry but as usual you should sit down so we can't hear your voice.
Not only did they balls up the start but are busily ballsing up the ongoing situation.
Stop praising mass murderers.

You know that I’m no fan of Johnson, but I believe they are right to open things up and let the public take some responsibility for themselves. We couldn’t have remained in lockdown for ever.

 

[flecc]

You know that I’m no fan of Johnson, but I believe they are right to open things up and let the public take some responsibility for themselves. We couldn’t have remained in lockdown for ever.

It's what I've been maintaining since the outset, give the public the advice, them leave them to it. London has been consistently doing that in a typically independent way and though initially suffering from that, has benefited ever since. We continue to baffle the so called experts with our low rates of both infections and deaths as I've reported regularly.

In round numbers:

UK over 12 vaccinated first dose = 86%

UK over 12 vaccinated second dose = 79%

UK infection rate = 373 per 100,000

My London Borough:

Over 12 vaccinated first dose = 65%

Over 12 vaccinated second dose = 58%

Borough infection rate = 193% but has mostly been appreciably lower

So vaccinations trailing behind by over 24% due to very high refusal rates but far from any ill effects, our infection rate half that nationally at most. Death rate half too (zero for some while), and these low figures have been consistent every time I've posted them for months now.

One might conclude that the deniers and refuseniks have a good case, but I don't.

I simply believe the vaccines are nowhere near as good as has been hyped and that personal action is far more effective in avoiding Covid.
.

 

[Danidl]

"I simply believe the vaccines are nowhere near as good as has been hyped and that personal action is far more effective in avoiding Covid."
well flecc.... i am going to somewhat agree and also disagree. . In Ireland we now have 89.6% of the total population vaccinated ... in round numbers we have 400 in hospital of which 73 in ICUs. 2/3 of all hospital admissions currently are of UNVACCINATED people and 1/3 vaccinated .. So the Vaccines are extremely effective. ...eg 2/3 of the hospital admissions are from the approx 5% of unvaccinated. . Very few of the hospital cases are children ...
But of course personal responsibility and action is key . I am also wondering whether the AZ vaccine is as effective as the Pfizer ... a couple , friends of my daughter have got Covid recently , and are isolating with it. , both were vaccinated with the AZ , and the husband got it by being required to attend a weekly work meeting , and of course his partner gets it a few days later. Neither we assume will be hospital cases.

 

[guerney]

Sell your new phone to buy more gas, use your old phone:

Cycling. Health. Covid. Diet.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-antiviral-drug-combo-may-fight-off-coronavirus-infection

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I bet most Pedelecers never venture into the strange and varied landscape of this thread. The only reason I became aware of this gigantic pub argument, is when Flecc mentioned it on the Covid thread - much of what's been said here about the pandemic may never be read, by more than the small handful (or handful and a half?) of you who frequent this odd, heated and very long discussion space, which is a shame (I think {but might not be }).

I'd love to see and hear this whole thread re-enacted on Zoom... Who gets played by DeNiro?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Sell your new phone to buy more gas, use your old phone:

Cycling. Health. Covid. Diet.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-antiviral-drug-combo-may-fight-off-coronavirus-infection

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I bet most Pedelecers never venture into the strange and varied landscape of this thread. The only reason I became aware of this gigantic pub argument, is when Flecc mentioned it on the Covid thread - much of what's been said here about the pandemic may never be read, by more than the small handful (or handful and a half?) of you who frequent this odd, heated and very long discussion space, which is a shame (I think {but might not be }).

I'd love to see and hear this whole thread re-enacted on Zoom... Who gets played by DeNiro?

The unexpected always happen. I would not be surprised if in 2055 the thread is dramatised and serialized for tv in an eastenders format with lots of threats and dropping of consonants and occasional intense trysts

 

[Jesus H Christ]

It's what I've been maintaining since the outset, give the public the advice, them leave them to it. London has been consistently doing that in a typically independent way and though initially suffering from that, has benefited ever since. We continue to baffle the so called experts with our low rates of both infections and deaths as I've reported regularly.

In round numbers:

UK over 12 vaccinated first dose = 86%

UK over 12 vaccinated second dose = 79%

UK infection rate = 373 per 100,000

My London Borough:

Over 12 vaccinated first dose = 65%

Over 12 vaccinated second dose = 58%

Borough infection rate = 193% but has mostly been appreciably lower

So vaccinations trailing behind by over 24% due to very high refusal rates but far from any ill effects, our infection rate half that nationally at most. Death rate half too (zero for some while), and these low figures have been consistent every time I've posted them for months now.

One might conclude that the deniers and refuseniks have a good case, but I don't.

I simply believe the vaccines are nowhere near as good as has been hyped and that personal action is far more effective in avoiding Covid.
.

I would have argued with you a few weeks back, particularly regarding the last paragraph. However, the evidence seems to support the consistent message coming from you.

 

[guerney]

occasional intense trysts

Zlatan and OG?!?!? PLEASE NOT ON ZOOM!!!!

 

[guerney]

There is some medical support for the theory that running improves knee condition, not damages it. So far no problems for me.

Interesting - I don't recall my knee problems getting any worse when I slow jogged for a year (pre-pandemic). A year of ebiking has made my knees much worse! But that could be because of general bad health, and not anything to do with the actual physical activity of cycling. After my first slow jogging session for almost a year the other day, both big toes - right hip and knees feel freer, and for a day or two I regained my jungle beast grace and balance (or I thought so). The day after that 3.54 mile jog EVERYTHING HURT! It hurt the next day, and the day after that... but I slow jogged up a hill yesterday and it all seemed to be functioning as it should, so I may slow jog later tonight around the poor excuse of a park, which exists about a mile away. I should manage about five times around with ease. Very slowly, of course. Actually, that particular park might be safer in the mornings...

 

[guerney]

Rothetham

That's exactly the noise I make when I vomit: ROTHHH!!! ETHHH!!! HHHAAAMMM!!! - I wouldn't enjoy jogging around that either, and certainly not slowly.

Those views are very nice, but you could always revisit those when you have time off from slow jogging?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Interesting - I don't recall my knee problems getting any worse when I slow jogged for a year (pre-pandemic). A year of ebiking has made my knees much worse! But that could be because of general bad health, and not anything to do with the actual physical activity of cycling. After my first slow jogging session for almost a year the other day, both big toes - right hip and knees feel freer, and for a day or two I regained my jungle beast grace and balance (or I thought so). The day after that 3.54 mile jog EVERYTHING HURT! It hurt the next day, and the day after that... but I slow jogged up a hill yesterday and it all seemed to be functioning as it should, so I may slow jog later tonight around the poor excuse of a park, which exists about a mile away. I should manage about five times around with ease. Very slowly, of course. Actually, that particular park might be safer in the mornings...

What I'm about to say is heresy on a pedelec forum. But I'm not sure ebikes are necessarily good for ones health. In my 50s I realised the truth in " if you dont use it you loose it". How important it is to push ones body to maintain capacity. When I cycle these days its often on an old badly converted dawes kingpin that require about as much effort as walking.

 

[oyster]

Sell your new phone to buy more gas, use your old phone:

Cycling. Health. Covid. Diet.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-antiviral-drug-combo-may-fight-off-coronavirus-infection

www.pedelecs.co.uk

I bet most Pedelecers never venture into the strange and varied landscape of this thread. The only reason I became aware of this gigantic pub argument, is when Flecc mentioned it on the Covid thread - much of what's been said here about the pandemic may never be read, by more than the small handful (or handful and a half?) of you who frequent this odd, heated and very long discussion space, which is a shame (I think {but might not be }).

I'd love to see and hear this whole thread re-enacted on Zoom... Who gets played by DeNiro?

Michael Gambon, please, to play me!

 

[guerney]

Michael Gambon, please, to play me!

Quackery dictates I be respresented by a mallard.