Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Who do you ring up when you need some help? Or just to chew things over?

Clinton suggests Putin may have known about riot in Capitol, Pelosi wants 9/11 commission-type probe
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillary-clinton-suggests-putin-played-role-in-capitol-riot-pelosi-wants-9-11-commission-type-probe

Maybe Fox really has broken with Trump?

 

[flecc]

they had been told by Pfizer they will not be getting any more for some time.

Pfizer have had ro shut down production for a while in order to upgrade to a far higher volume production. So once they get going again th volumes will be far greater than now.
.

 

[flecc]

I, d read somewhere they were planning on mixing and matching vaccines. (ie run out of Biontech you get AZ for 2nd)

It's not planned but is being considered if shown to be safe. But currently no-one knows, least of all the makers at present.
.

 

[Danidl]

These are the deaths per 1 million population according to Worldometer.

1) San Marino 1913
2)Belgium 1767
3)Czechia 1366
4) Italy 1367
5)Bulgaria 1350
6)UK 1320
7) USA 1230

Its utterly ridiculous to compare our situation with that of NZ. Or perhaps we should do so with regards a British Isle with similar population density and isolation.
The Isle of Man has recorded 25 deaths in total. (Population circa 100k)

Geographical position,isolation potential and population density appear to play just as much a part as political / logistic decisions.
Look at San Marino and Belgium.
I, m not for a moment saying our govt have handled this well. The fact is from the beginning this has been a test of the population being sensible and following rules. Apparently, according to flecc and Daniel, we are only now following lockdown rules?? Perhaps rather than pointing out this govt's failings we should all have been telling every body to follow the rules.
And, yes I agree with Flecc, he has got a point if he hasn't been vaccinated, but moaning after you, ve had one, demanding a right to have second when it seems many are in flecc's situation is rather much. (and worse but I ain't going there again)
There needs to be a thorough investigation with no political bias in years to come not to have a go at this government but to work out exactly what the next government does correctly.
This issue should be beyond party politics, some on here find it impossible to make it so. I wanted to follow instructions not because I believe in Tories (far from it) but because in a crisis the best way out is to follow procedures, and not berate, discredit and attack them like some have done continually.
The entire UK system regarding vaccination warrants applaud and praise. Not derision and criticism. Especially so if you,, ve already had a vaccine.
Let's face it Vaccination programme must be going well, even BBC, The Guardian and Jeremy Vine say so.
PS. Good post Nev.
I, d read somewhere they were planning on mixing and matching vaccines. (ie run out of Biontech you get AZ for 2nd) I, m not qualified to comment but no doubt some expert pedelecers, toilet engineers and the Irish chap will know whether this is safe.

The Irish chap has no knowledge of immunology, so will not be commenting on any mix and match. He listens to the Scientists.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

By taking a big gamble with our lives.

Most of the jabs have been of the Pfizer vaccine which is between 52% and 57% effective for the 21 days to the second jab after which it becomes about 95% effective. But the government has cancelled that second jab at 21 days, changing it to 12 weeks and no-one, least of all Pfizer, have any idea what happens next. Will the 12 week second jab still work to give 90% or will it fail to stop the decline in effectiveness, we just don't know?

I think it would have been better if cancelling second jabs to switch to the easier administration of a single complete injection to give 90% protection to less of the population but accurately aiming it to the priority groups, rather than the present chaotic administration.

The more careful initial approach in the EU is the safer and therefore wiser way and I've no doubt that before long they'll be catching up or overtaking us.
.

It’s not ideal, we agree on that.

Two options exist.

Option 1) Inject one person with two doses and do nothing with the second. The vaccinated person has a 95% chance of not feeling poorly. The second person risks death and / or hospitalisation.

Option 2) Inject both people with one dose. Vaccination trials suggest both are still susceptible to getting coronavirus, but neither will die or develop complications requiring hospitalisation. They might have mild symptoms to contend with.

Option 2 every day of the week.

 

[Zlatan]

The Irish chap has no knowledge of immunology, so will not be commenting on any mix and match. He listens to the Scientists.

Well I never. Life is full of surprises. Nice one.

 

[Zlatan]

It’s not ideal, we agree on that.

Two options exist.

Option 1) Inject one person with two doses and do nothing with the second. The vaccinated person has a 95% chance of not feeling poorly. The second person risks death and / or hospitalisation.

Option 2) Inject both people with one dose. Vaccination trials suggest both are still susceptible to getting coronavirus, but neither will die or develop complications requiring hospitalisation. They might have mild symptoms to contend with.

Option 2 every day of the week.

We all seem to have got bogged down with this time between doses change and for all the early recipients it's easy to understand but since bulk of UK's programme will be with AZ it's not the problem it's made out to be. AZ have said from start 2nd vaccine between 3 and 12 weeks later??? (as far as I, m aware???)

 

[flecc]

It’s not ideal, we agree on that.

Two options exist.

Option 1) Inject one person with two doses and do nothing with the second. The vaccinated person has a 95% chance of not feeling poorly. The second person risks death and / or hospitalisation.

Option 2) Inject both people with one dose. Vaccination trials suggest both are still susceptible to getting coronavirus, but neither will die or develop complications requiring hospitalisation. They might have mild symptoms to contend with.

Option 2 every day of the week.

Confused thinking.

In option 1 the second person's risk is not death or hospitalisation:

Their greatest risk by far is not catching anything.

Their very much smaller risk is catching covid with very mild symptoms.

An even smaller risk is catching it with severe symptoms.

The final and extremely small risk is death.

So the risk ratio is far from 50/50 as you've presented it.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Confused thinking.

In option 1 the second person's risk is not death or hospitalisation:

Their greatest risk by far is not catching anything.

Their very much smaller risk is catching covid with very mild symptoms.

An even smaller risk is catching it with severe symptoms.

The final and extremely small risk is death.

So the risk ratio is far from 50/50 as you've presented it.
.

You should back that statement up by giving your vaccination slot to someone else then. If the risk to the unvaccinated person is so vanishingly small, you will have absolutely nothing to worry about. Go and join Jeremy Corbyn’s brother on one of his anti-lockdown demonstrations.

 

[flecc]

We all seem to have got bogged down with this time between doses change and for all the early recipients it's easy to understand but since bulk of UK's programme will be with AZ it's not the problem it's made out to be. AZ have said from start 2nd vaccine between 3 and 12 weeks later??? (as far as I, m aware???)

Except that AZ hasn't had any third stage approval and is being risked with omly interim trial results. And it's less effective:

The COVID-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca wasn’t the first to be OK’d by regulators in the U.K.—health officials authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech jab nearly four weeks earlier. And it’s not the most effective—Stage 3 clinical trials suggest it prevents COVID-19 symptoms about 70% of the time vs. about 95% for the Pfizer vaccine.
(both witn full doses)
.

 

[Zlatan]

Analysis: is it wise for England to mix and match Covid vaccines?

US experts warn against plan to give different second jab if supplies run low

www.theguardian.com

This report suggests PHE have already said mix and match is OK...( in extreme situations)

 

[flecc]

You should back that statement up by giving your vaccination slot to someone else then. If the risk to the unvaccinated person is so vanishingly small, you will have absolutely nothing to worry about. Go and join Jeremy Corbyn’s brother on one of his anti-lockdown demonstrations.

Your brain seems to have stopped working. Nothing in what I posted logically leads to that conclusion.

Under a one full dose system the simpler admin with half the numbers could allow strict order by age tier and actual age. However being that strict would hardly be necessary since there are so few in each very old age tier within each health trust district.

In other words, I'd just get my turn, which is entirely fair.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Except that AZ hasn't had any third stage approval and is being risked with omly interim trial results. And it's less effective:

The COVID-19 vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca wasn’t the first to be OK’d by regulators in the U.K.—health officials authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech jab nearly four weeks earlier. And it’s not the most effective—Stage 3 clinical trials suggest it prevents COVID-19 symptoms about 70% of the time vs. about 95% for the Pfizer vaccine.
(both witn full doses)
.

But again, the trial results indicate that the risk of severe symptoms requiring hospitalisation is virtually zero.

I think we need to agree upon what a win is. In my view it’s not dying or developing long Covid. The AZ vaccine addresses both, so I consider it a winner.

Of course there will be those who will be eternally dissatisfied until Jeremy Corbyn & Diane Abbott invent a vaccine which prevents any symptoms whatsoever.

This just about sums up where we are on this forum.

 

[Zlatan]

But again, the trial results indicate that the risk of severe symptoms requiring hospitalisation is virtually zero.

I think we need to agree upon what a win is. In my view it’s not dying or developing long Covid. The AZ vaccine addresses both, so I consider it a winner.

Of course there will be those who will be eternally dissatisfied until Jeremy Corbyn & Diane Abbott invent a vaccine which prevents any symptoms whatsoever.

This just about sums up where we are on this forum.

It went off with the fairies (and Leprechauns) months ago..

 

[Woosh]

A very minor error, but sadly we can no longer say 'other EU countries'.

many thanks for pointing that out.
DPD have just restarted their European routes. I should be able to ship the kits to EU customers now but have left that facility out of the webpages for the time being.
We'll deal with a few customers informally until the system is tested.

 

[Zlatan]

And OG continuing on here as he did when working.. pushing stuff around bend..

 

[oyster]

3 and 12 weeks

Four to twelve weeks.

 

[Woosh]

Option 1) Inject one person with two doses and do nothing with the second. The vaccinated person has a 95% chance of not feeling poorly. The second person risks death and / or hospitalisation.

Option 2) Inject both people with one dose. Vaccination trials suggest both are still susceptible to getting coronavirus, but neither will die or develop complications requiring hospitalisation. They might have mild symptoms to contend with.

Option 2 every day of the week.

the outcome of option 2 depends very much on the subject.
If he/she is very old, a dose of covid may kill him/her even after the first dose.
On top of that safety threshold, the efficacy of the AZ is affected by their immune reaction to the adenovirus that is used to carry covid's genome. The second dose is much more needed by him/her compared to someone fit and healthy like yourself.
That is why I think we should protect the old and weak first before worrying about the under 60.

 

[oldgroaner]

And it has been suggested that there might be mileage in having a Sputnik vaccine in combo with (I think I read) Oxford-AstraZenica. It was suggested there could even be advantages in using some combinations of two different vaccines. However, I do not know of any completed research on this.

Don't worry Boris and co will soon coerce some "Scientist" to opine it will be fine, it worked before didn't it?
I wouldn't put it past this government to resort to diluting what vaccine they have to make it go further

 

[oldgroaner]

Yep, thought you, d know.
Hypocrite.
You are losing it OG. Must be the vaccine.
My stupid comment was I don't know whether it's either the case or safe if it is.
How on earth is that stupid?

You just proved my point, it should have been plainly obvious to you that without supporting hard evidence it is unsafe.
Nobody in their right mind gambles other people's life on wishful thinking.

Sorry I'll qualify that except Conservatives and apologists for this government